Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Janet Kintner, A Judge’s Tale: A Trailblazer Fights for her Place on the Bench
Host: G.P. Gottlieb
Guest: Retired Judge Janet Kintner
Date: February 3, 2026

Theme:
This episode centers on retired Judge Janet Kintner’s memoir, which recounts her journey as one of the earliest women judges in San Diego, California. Kintner and Gottlieb discuss her formative experiences, the obstacles she faced as a female lawyer and judge, her reflections on justice and empathy, and the significance of telling women’s stories in the legal profession.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Motivation for Writing the Memoir

• COVID and Retirement as Catalysts
  • Kintner explains that the slow-down during COVID and her transition from full-time judging to part-time work gave her space to reflect on her life and realize the importance of preserving her experiences.
    • Quote: “I was getting near retiring... everything kind of slowed down with COVID... I need to do something worthwhile. And then I thought about all those experiences I had had earlier as a lawyer and a judge, and I thought, I should do something with that before it gets lost.” [02:34]

2. Childhood and Early Influences

• Complex Family Life
  • Kintner grew up in a large family with a volatile, sometimes emotionally abusive father, but found solace in close relationships with her siblings and mother.
    • Quote: "Overshadowing that was my father's temper. He had a terrible temper... that just overshadowed my life. I didn't invite friends over because I was afraid of being embarrassed." [03:46]
• Finding Her Voice Through Debate
  • Despite being told to be "seen and not heard," Kintner thrived in public speaking, especially in college debate, which propelled her towards a legal career.
    • Quote: “I loved it more than anything else...I loved the arguing...he said, ‘Well, you know you can do this for a living...go to law school and be a trial lawyer.’” [04:46]

3. Developing Empathy and Compassion

• Life-altering Injury
  • A horseback riding accident, resulting in a lengthy recovery and partial loss of mobility in her arm, gave Kintner deep empathy for those in pain or crisis.
    • Quote: “We go through these times of suffering...the good thing about that...is we develop empathy for other people, compassion...we connect with people on a more sympathetic level.” [05:34]
• On What Makes a Good Judge
  • Empathy, Kintner argues, is essential for lawyers and judges. Real-life hardships make legal professionals more understanding and less dismissive.
    • Quote: “We want good judges who have had life experiences, not somebody who's just had an easy life and everything handed to them.” [06:50]

4. Confronting Harassment and Gender Inequality

• Sexual Misconduct and Societal Silence
  • Kintner recounts her own experiences with molestation and how, due to societal silence, she and her peers did not know how to react or seek justice.
    • Quote: “We were taught to behave...that’s wrong. There are times when we need to be heard, especially if somebody’s committing a crime against us.” [08:02]
• Lack of Awareness and Preparation
  • She underscores how the absence of conversation around sexual misconduct leaves young women unprepared, and further, notes improvements in awareness today.
    • Quote: “It wasn’t spoken. If people haven’t talked about it...they don’t know what to do. Which is amazing because I was like 20 years old and I didn’t know what to do.” [09:15]

5. Breaking into the Legal Profession

• Law School Challenges
  • At the University of Arizona, women comprised less than 3% of students. Professors targeted women for humiliation, something Kintner believes would not stand today.
    • Quote: “He called on another young woman...and he got away with it, clearly. I don’t think that would happen today...especially knowing he’s intentionally picking on a woman.” [10:25]
• Gender Politics Among Peers
  • Kintner had to navigate not only male colleagues but also their spouses, ensuring women did not see her as a threat—a burden male lawyers did not bear.
    • Quote: “I just wanted to make sure they didn’t consider me a threat. There’s no way I ever wanted to break up anybody else’s relationship...I was trying to become a lawyer and a judge and do good.” [11:55]

6. Systemic Discrimination in the Workplace

• Open Discrimination in Hiring
  • Law firms overtly refused to hire women, facing no legal repercussions. Women refrained from suing due to the futility and potential career suicide.
    • Quote: “They would say, ‘We won’t hire you because you’re a woman.’...Nobody filed a lawsuit for that, and we knew if we did, you would never win.” [15:50]
• Progress and Ongoing Risks
  • Kintner acknowledges progress but expresses concern that legal and societal advances for women could still be reversed.
    • Quote: “I think that that is possible...there are people who don’t want women educated or working...it is something we do have to be on guard for.” [17:23]

7. Journey to the Bench and Political Tensions

• Becoming a Judge
  • When appointed, Kintner was one of only a handful of women judges in her county. Public skepticism and surprise were rampant.
    • Quote: “In our whole county, we had like, two, three women judges out of way over a hundred...When we got more women judges, they had to accept a woman judge.” [18:38]
• Grueling Judicial Election
  • Kintner describes her re-election campaign as brutal, with a male opponent resorting to lies, personal attacks, and misinformation.
    • Quote: “He was so especially nasty and said horrible things and he said some lies...I felt very strongly that I couldn’t let down the governor who had appointed me...and I couldn’t let down all the women in the world." [20:19]
  • She notes that the lack of technology at the time made campaigning especially arduous and isolating.
    • Quote: “That was before the Internet...We had to go out and hand out brochures to people. So it’s really changed. That was awful. It was awful.” [21:40]

8. Looking to the Future

• Next Projects
  • Kintner is considering a sequel to her memoir or perhaps a fictionalized version, allowing her to explore wish-fulfillment through her protagonist.
    • Quote: “So many people said I should write the sequel...but then somebody else said...you can make it fiction. And you can do all the things you wish you’d done." [22:58]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Writing: “When something’s in a book...it makes so much more of an impression on our heart than...just something somebody says." – Janet Kintner [02:34]
• On Empathy: “It was like Franklin Delano Roosevelt when he got polio...he was so much more compassionate and kind and understanding.” – Janet Kintner [05:34]
• On Gender Justice: “Women have to be in positions of power to get justice...If men are running everything...that’s how we were treated.” – Janet Kintner [13:23]
• On Institutional Change: “Now there’s such a strong presence of women...and that makes to me all the difference.” – Janet Kintner [14:40]
• On Backsliding: “I do think that is a definite danger that we want to guard against...it’s good for men and women to have equality for women.” – Janet Kintner [17:23]
• On the Weight of Being a Pioneer: “I felt like I really had to win to help women and give them a chance..." – Janet Kintner [21:25]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Motivation for Memoir – 02:27–03:28
• Childhood Reflections – 03:33–04:46
• Debate Club/Law School Path – 04:46–05:18
• Injury and Empathy – 05:18–06:48
• Sexual Harassment and Justice – 07:42–09:55
• Law School Discrimination – 09:55–11:38
• Navigating Gendered Workplace Challenges – 11:38–13:01
• Systemic Job Discrimination; Workplace Law – 15:20–16:55
• On Potential Backlash to Equality Laws – 16:55–18:26
• Experience as a Rare Female Judge – 18:26–19:53
• Judicial Election Battle – 19:53–22:54
• Future Writing Plans – 22:54–23:39

Conclusion

This episode offers an intimate look into Janet Kintner’s formative experiences, her determination to persist despite widespread societal and systemic barriers, and her advocacy for women in the legal profession. The candid discussion between Gottlieb and Kintner provides both historic context and lessons for today, highlighting the crucial role of representation, empathy, and perseverance on the path to justice.