Podcast Summary: Jason Roberts, "We Stay the Same: Subsistence, Logging, and Enduring Hopes for Development in Papua New Guinea" (New Books Network, Feb 2, 2026)

Overview

This episode of the New Books Network, hosted by Yadong Li, centers on Jason S. Roberts’s book We Stay the Same: Subsistence, Logging, and Enduring Hopes for Development in Papua New Guinea (University of Arizona Press, 2024). Roberts, a political ecologist and anthropologist, discusses his long-term ethnographic and ecological research among the Lavangai people of New Hanover Island, Papua New Guinea. The conversation explores subsistence practices, the impact of small and large-scale resource extraction, and the complex, persistent hopes for development among islanders whose material conditions have remained largely unchanged despite decades of outside intervention. Roberts frames these tensions through the concept of a “political ecology of hope”.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Author Background and Research Genesis

• Roberts’s trajectory: From forestry studies in North Carolina to graduate work in political ecology and anthropology, combining interests in forestry and anthropology (03:30).
• Early attempts at finding a dissertation led to connections with advisors and local contacts in PNG, beginning pilot research in 2012.
• “I knew I wanted to do something that combined interests in anthropology and forestry…then through [Paige West] I was put in touch with some people from New Ireland and New Hanover…” (03:56)

2. Setting and People: The Lavangai of New Hanover

• Geography/historical context: Remote island, part of New Ireland province, ~30,000 people. Formerly known as New Hanover (German colonial name), the Lavangai are the indigenous inhabitants (10:49).
• Livelihoods: Shifting cultivation and fishing are dominant; some pig hunting, primary crops include taro, cassava, banana, sweet potato.
• Outside influences: Stories of missionaries, especially American Catholics, factor into local concepts of development (11:40).
• Aspirations: Exposure to stories and goods from abroad makes material improvements—a “good life”—deeply appealing, even as options are limited.

3. Development, Desire, and the “Political Ecology of Hope”

• Roberts’s conceptual approach weaves political ecology, anthropology of hope/desire, and Foucaultian ideas about discourse shaping possibilities.
• Key phrase: “Mipla stap olsem / We stay the same”—a locally shared refrain expressing continuity and disappointment with development outcomes (18:31).
  • “These companies come in, they get all the good of the island and we don’t really change.” (19:50)
• Persistent hope persists despite repeated failed projects, owing in part to powerful capitalist development discourses and material desire.

4. Resource Extraction: Logging and Agroforestry Projects

• Historical shift from small-scale, short-term logging to large-scale Special Agriculture and Business Leases (SABLs) with promises of commercial agriculture (27:53).
• Land tenure complexities: Communal land tenure undermined by companies oversimplifying clan ownership, formalizing “incorporated land groups.”
• Ecological impacts: Clear-cutting degrades soils, reduces food security, disrupts traditional gardening cycles, dries up waterways, and increases erosion (36:00).
• Social impacts: Distribution of (minimal) project benefits through a few empowered individuals fosters intra-community tension. “Money is going through one person or a couple of people…which can be problematic…” (33:59)

5. Hope and Precarity in Development

• Precarious hope: Islanders compelled by desire for modernity (“roads, permanent houses, running water, electricity”) repeatedly take risks with incoming companies, even in the face of systemic disappointment (39:49, 41:01).
  • “It’s not likely I’m going to get another opportunity to fulfill this desire. Maybe this company will be a good company…” (44:30)
• Internal and external actors all invested in producing and maintaining these hopes—risk is weighed against a lack of other opportunities.
• The cycle perpetuates as both outside companies and local leaders leverage these desires.

6. Materialities of Subsistence and Adaptation

• Roberts details the labor, ingenuity, and constraints entailed in everyday gardening, fishing, and shelter building (48:31).
  • Environmental unpredictability (droughts, El Niño events) compounded by ecological decline post-logging.
  • “You see both the beauty and the struggle of that type of lifestyle…it’s more than the minimum required to make a life, but it’s not like living like a western kind of global power.” (50:23)

7. Reflections and Broader Lessons

• Roberts aims for accessibility to a broad audience—including Lavangai themselves.
• Lessons for development work:
  • Importance of understanding local land tenure/ownership.
  • Realistic, enforceable benefit agreements with oversight.
  • Cautions against the replication of extractive models that cyclically disappoint and exploit hope (54:07).
• The broader applicability of these dynamics to global contexts, including parallels with rural communities in the US seeking economic development (46:30).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On local endurance and disappointment:
  “These companies come in, they get all the good of the island and we don’t really change. But that’s not what these projects were supposed to be about.”
  — Jason Roberts (19:50)

• On development’s allure:
  “The idea of development remains, you know, appealing…there’s something about that that really keeps you going for it.”
  — Jason Roberts (09:37)

• On land and legitimacy:
  “The company basically lumped everything into three incorporated land groups…which is obviously not accurate for how lands are owned.”
  — Jason Roberts (32:53)

• On the cycle of hope and risk:
  “What does it mean if we say no to this particular project? When are we going to get another opportunity to develop? ... Maybe this company will be a good company.”
  — Jason Roberts (44:30)

• On global parallels:
  “You see that going on across the world, in the United States right now... Well, this is the company that’s going to give us the jobs, right? And we need this company kind of thing.”
  — Jason Roberts (46:30)

• On lessons for development:
  “There needed to be more oversight...people didn’t get what they thought they were getting. And that kind of keeps getting repeated over and over again in this area of the world.”
  — Jason Roberts (58:03)

Important Timestamps

• [03:30] – Roberts’s pathway into PNG research
• [10:49] – Introduction to Lavangai people, history, livelihoods
• [18:31] – Theoretical framing: “political ecology of hope”
• [27:53] – SABLs and transformation of land/social relations
• [36:00] – Ecological and social aftereffects of logging
• [41:01] – Function and risks of hope in agreeing to projects
• [48:31] – Everyday practices, adaptation, and struggle
• [54:07] – Lessons for scholars, practitioners, and future development

Final Reflections

Roberts’s We Stay the Same ultimately presents a deeply nuanced ethnographic account, balancing critical attention to material hardship, structural exploitation, and the undiminished presence of hope that shapes Lavangai life. His analysis warns against simplistic narratives of victimization or naive belief in the promises of “good change,” instead documenting the ways hope is both a vital resource and a perpetually manipulated tool in local and global development encounters.

For students, practitioners, and scholars, the episode provides:

• A model of attentive, engaged fieldwork
• Sharp reminders of development’s limitations and ethical complexities
• A rich evocation of islanders’ agency, resilience, and endurance amidst inevitable disappointment

Host: Yadong Li
Guest: Dr. Jason S. Roberts
Book: We Stay the Same: Subsistence, Logging, and Enduring Hopes for Development in Papua New Guinea
Podcast: New Books Network, New Books Anthropology
Date: February 2, 2026