Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Episode: Jerry Moore, "Cat Tales: A History" (Thames & Hudson, 2025)
Date: December 14, 2025
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Jerry Moore

Overview

This episode sees host Dr. Miranda Melcher interviewing archaeologist Dr. Jerry Moore about his latest book, Cat Tales: A History. The conversation explores humanity’s complex and evolving relationship with cats—from our deep evolutionary past, when we were sometimes their prey, to the domestication and veneration of cats as beloved pets and charismatic cultural icons in the present day. The discussion offers rich insight into the biological, archaeological, and anthropological significance of cats, and unpacks the surprising ways our fascination with felines reveals much about human society across millennia.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write a History of Cats? (02:36–05:25)

• Personal Motivation: Moore describes a moment of introspection, sitting with his own cat and wondering, “How the heck did this happen? How did this come to be?”
• Anthropological Approach: Moore frames the book through the anthropology of the past, inspired by Claude Lévi-Strauss’s idea that anthropology connects world history with individual experience.
• Quote:

  “I see my archaeology as an anthropology of the past… trying to connect my experience with the experience of others in other places, in other times is really what motivated this book.” (04:14–05:06, Dr. Jerry Moore)

2. Early Human-Cat Interactions: Predators and Prey (06:14–09:18)

• Primates as Prey: Early interactions involved humans (and primate ancestors) as prey to large cats.
• Evolutionary Impact: The presence of large feline predators shaped primate and human evolution, influencing group behavior and communication (e.g., specific warning calls for different predators).
• Quote:

  “Our first interactions with cats was where they were predators and we were prey… Human evolutionary history, yeah, that's definitely a different perspective than the cute, cuddly ones on our stomachs now.” (06:24–09:18, Dr. Jerry Moore and Dr. Miranda Melcher)

3. The Persistent Allure: Cats as Charismatic Species (10:02–12:15)

• Ancient and Modern Charisma: Large cats have long been among the most “charismatic” animals, as reflected in Paleolithic cave art and modern conservation branding.
• Continuity Across Time: The same species revered today—lions, leopards, tigers, cheetahs—were also favored subjects thousands of years ago.
• Quote:

  “Of the top ten most charismatic living animals… the top four of the top ten were cats… But the species that are seen as being charismatic today are in many ways the same species that show up in Upper Paleolithic cave art.” (10:27–11:30, Dr. Jerry Moore)

4. From Wild Hunters to House Pets: Pathways to Domestication (12:15–16:43)

• Why Cats Became Pets: Domestication linked to settled, agricultural societies storing grain, which attracted rodents—thus drawing in wild cats for pest control.
• Geographic Differences: While the Near East (with both rodents and wild cats) spearheaded domestication, similar conditions in the Americas did not result in native cat domestication.
• Personal Anecdote: Moore relates his own rodent troubles and the age-old need for feline assistance.
• Quote:

  “…when they get smaller… But the transformation… from those ferocious but charismatic and large wild cats to the smaller cats… seems to be associated with… agriculture… and these pests that seems to create an environment by which otherwise wild cats would become part of a domesticated landscape.” (12:46–15:10, Dr. Jerry Moore)

5. Cats in Ancient Societies: Veneration and Cultural Significance (18:15–19:55)

• Universal Appreciation: The veneration of cats occurred independently across different cultures, like ancient Egypt with lions and cats, and the Americas with jaguars.
• Recognizable Behaviors: Such veneration, Moore notes, is widely legible across cultures and history.

6. Pet Cemeteries: Ancient and Modern (19:55–22:19)

• Deep Origins: The oldest known intentional cat burial (~10,000 years ago, Cyprus) suggests human-feline bonds stretch back millennia.
• Egyptian Cat Mummies: Along the Nile, thousands of cats were mummified as offerings—a practice paralleling, but differing from, modern pet burials.
• Legal Contrasts: U.S. pet cemetery laws strictly separate human and animal burials, unlike in some ancient contexts.
• Quote:

  “We call all of these things cemeteries, but they suggest different sorts of attitudes and regulations about the ways in which humans and animals, including cats, not only interacted while they were alive, but were able to interact while they were dead.” (21:16–22:19, Dr. Jerry Moore)

7. Ancient Egypt: The Most Common Artifact Was the Mummy (22:19–24:16)

• Surprising Fact: Mummies (including animal mummies) were likely the most numerous artifacts produced in ancient Egypt—“more numerous than… plates or bowls or coffee cups.”
• Quote:

  “It's thought that mummies were the most commonly made artifact in ancient Egypt… That's a really striking piece of comparison.” (23:25–24:14, Dr. Jerry Moore)

8. Big Cats and Human Power: Displays, Zoos, and Charisma (24:16–28:23)

• Royal Menageries: Rulers captured and displayed big cats for spectacle, hunting, and power, as seen in ancient Near East courts and the Aztec emperor Moctezuma's zoo.
• Modern Parallels: Today’s fascination and legal wrangling over captive wild cats echoes these ancient practices, with an intense regulatory focus on how close humans can get to these animals (e.g., “petting” zoo regulations).
• Quote:

  “If you read the laws about them, one of the things that is most prominent in the regulations is just how close people are allowed to get to the cats. In particular, the laws are extremely detailed about what, whether or not people are allowed to pet the cats…” (27:12–28:03, Dr. Jerry Moore)

9. Delightful Discoveries and Surprising Stories (28:23–32:49)

• Petting Regulations: Moore was surprised by how detailed U.S. laws are regarding petting wild cats.
• Cats at Sea: Cats traveled with seafarers since prehistoric times. The tale of Noah’s Ark from Islamic tradition depicts God conjuring cats from a lion’s sneeze to save the Ark from mice.
• Ancient Sailors and Pet Cemeteries: A Roman port (Berenice) hosted not only tough sailors and war elephants, but also well-cared-for pet cemeteries for cats and other animals.
• Quote:

  “One of the great stories… [involves] Noah and the ark… as the story goes, Noah is scratching the muzzle of a lion… the lion sneezes… and when the snot hits the deck, cats miraculously get created…” (29:23–30:22, Dr. Jerry Moore)

10. Wild Cats in Modern Cities: The Case of P22, the Hollywood Cougar (33:27–36:47)

• Urban Predators: Los Angeles (with mountain lions) and Mumbai (with leopards) are rare among global cities hosting large wild cats nearby.
• The Story of P22: A mountain lion became a local celebrity and was honored after its death with Native American rites and a public ceremony, evoking ancient traditions of veneration and interaction.
• Quote:

  “What’s common… is our awareness of the charisma of those animals, that these are creatures that we share the planet with, that we pay attention to… that has deep roots in human prehistory and also the history and ancient history of cats.” (36:31–36:47, Dr. Jerry Moore)

11. Looking Forward (37:08–37:52)

• What’s Next for Dr. Moore?: After years devoted to Cat Tales, Moore’s next project will likely be a significant shift in topic—no “Ancient Dog Tales” for now.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “How the heck did this happen? How did this come to be?”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore describing the book’s inspiration (04:02)
• “Our first interactions with cats was where they were predators and we were prey.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (06:24)
• “Of the top ten most charismatic living animals… four of the top ten were cats.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (10:27)
• “The transformation… seems to be associated with the development of more settled communities dependent on agriculture… and these pests that seems to create an environment by which otherwise wild cats would become part of a domesticated landscape.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (13:05–15:10)
• “It's thought that mummies were the most commonly made artifact in ancient Egypt… more numerous than… plates or bowls or coffee cups.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (23:27)
• “If you read the laws about them, one of the things that is most prominent… is just how close people are allowed to get to the cats. In particular, the laws are extremely detailed about what, whether or not people are allowed to pet the cats.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (27:12)
• “As the story goes, Noah is scratching the muzzle of a lion… the lion sneezes… and when the snot hits the deck, cats miraculously get created.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (29:45)
• “What’s common… is our awareness of the charisma of those animals… and I think that that has deep roots in human prehistory.”
  — Dr. Jerry Moore (36:31–36:47)

Structural Timeline & Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Start Time | |--------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introduction, Purpose, Jerry Moore’s Background | 01:35 | | Early Human-Cat History: Predators and Prey | 06:14 | | Charisma and Symbolism: Ancient and Modern Parallels | 10:02 | | Pathways to Domestication: From Wild to Pet | 12:45 | | Cats in Ancient Culture (Veneration, Pet Cemeteries) | 18:15 | | Egyptian Cat Mummies | 22:43 | | Captive Cats, Zoos, Royalty, and Regulations | 24:56 | | Surprising Discoveries, Cats at Sea, Ancient Sailors | 28:23 | | Wild Predators in Modern Cities—The P22 Story | 33:27 | | Conclusion, Moore’s Next Project | 37:08 |

Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, intellectually curious, and full of personal touches and humor. Dr. Moore is an engaging storyteller who brings archaeological detail alive, while Dr. Melcher asks insightful questions with a touch of wit and relatability.

Conclusion

This episode offers a fascinating journey through the deep, intertwined histories of humans and cats, revealing not just how felines became our companions, but how their presence continues to shape human culture, city life, deaths, and daily existence. From ancient pet cemeteries and Egyptian mummies to Hollywood celebrity cougars, Cat Tales: A History promises to uncover why our fascination with cats runs so deep—and why, as Dr. Moore puts it, “that has deep roots in human prehistory.”