Podcast Summary: New Books Network - Jo Mackiewicz, Learning Skilled Trades in the Workplace (Springer, 2025)

Host: Tom Disena
Guest: Jo Mackiewicz, Professor at Iowa State University
Air Date: January 9, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tom Disena interviews Jo Mackiewicz about her new book, Learning Skilled Trades in the Workplace. The conversation focuses on Mackiewicz’s personal journey learning welding at Houzz Welding and Metal Fabrication, her research into how expertise develops in skilled trades, and how communication and community shape learning on the shop floor. Through autoethnography, interviews, and reflections on practice, Mackiewicz examines the nonlinear, scaffolded, and community-driven nature of learning trades, offering insights valuable to both scholars and practitioners.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. From Writing Studies to Welding: Personal Motives and Research Trajectory

• Motivation to Learn Welding

  • Prompted by a personal injury that limited her usual activities, Mackiewicz sought a new, physical pursuit and became serious about welding after a positive experience at a makerspace ([02:58]).
  • Enrolled in a welding diploma at Des Moines Area Community College, taking classes over several years ([02:58]-[04:01]).
  • Her early research interests pivoted from writing studies to analyzing communication in welding instruction, focusing on both verbal and visual language ([04:07]).

  “It was sort of a personal decision at first… I enrolled in a welding diploma at Des Moines Area Community College and started taking one class a semester.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([02:58])

2. Bridging Academic Theory and Shop Practice

• Applying Scaffolding Frameworks

  • Mackiewicz adapted frameworks from writing center research—including motivational, cognitive, and instructional scaffolding—to understand learning in welding ([05:32]).
  • Emphasizes the importance of both depth and breadth in developing expertise, not just specialization in one process ([05:45]-[08:50]).

  “I took that sort of framework of tutoring strategies—the kind of motivational scaffolding, cognitive scaffolding, and instruction that tutors did—and started to apply it to what was going on in welding classes of all sorts.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([04:07])

3. Developing Empathy as an Instructor by Returning to Novice Status

• The Student Perspective

  • Mackiewicz describes a newfound empathy for her students after experiencing what it’s like to struggle as a learner, reinforcing the value of maintaining a “beginner’s mind” ([09:53]-[12:27]).

  “I feel like, yeah, I have more empathy for students now, and I thought I did before, but I think I’ve learned a whole new level…” – Jo Mackiewicz ([10:38])

4. The Shop Environment and Its Challenges

• Overview of Houzz Welding and Metal Fabrication

  • A “job shop” focused on one-off and repair work, requiring constant adaptation and problem-solving ([12:47]-[17:15]).
  • Everyday projects often involve learning new skills or solving novel problems.

• Boss and Expert Mentor: Jim Howe

  • Jim is portrayed as a deeply experienced, knowledgeable welder whose deliberative practice and problem-solving abilities serve as both inspiration and educational resource ([23:35]-[26:34]).

  “He’s this walking wealth of information and knowledge, not just about welding, but about machining, about running a small business...” – Jo Mackiewicz ([23:42])

5. Scaffolded Learning in Practice

• Three Categories of Scaffolding

  • Instructional Scaffolding: Direct instruction and demonstration.
  • Cognitive Scaffolding: Questioning to prompt learner thinking.
  • Motivational Scaffolding: Addressing learner affect and persistence ([18:15]-[20:38]).

  “I tend to classify them into three categories... Instruction, cognitive scaffolding, and motivational scaffolding.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([18:19])

• Limits of Instruction and Learner Overload

  • Mackiewicz openly discusses the reality of information overload and the importance of pacing learning to the zone of proximal development ([20:48]-[23:30]).

  “My brain is full. You have to stop now.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([20:55])

6. The Nonlinear—Sometimes Frustrating—Path to Competence

• Mistakes and Their Value

  • Emphasizes that making mistakes is a necessary and ongoing part of learning; progression is nonlinear and requires patience and practice ([28:43]-[32:10]).
  • Discusses the emotional side of mistakes and the cyclical process of gaining, losing, and regaining skill.

  “It does happen... eventually, but it is not linear. Nope, nope.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([31:45])

• Practical Anecdotes

  • Stories of specific mistakes, learning from failures, and eventual mastery (e.g., welding chrome chairs, using a complicated drill press) ([28:55]-[34:58]).
  • Identifies different types of mistakes: “dope slap” (obvious), communication, perception, conceptual (“what”), and procedural (“how”) ([35:10]-[43:47]).

  “In retrospect, you just think, what was I thinking? You know, rubber melts.” – Jo Mackiewicz ([37:22])

7. Workplace Documentation and “Shop Genres”

• Literacy in the Trades
  • Originally set out to study the genres (documents) of the shop: invoices, near miss reports, and non-conforming parts tags ([49:23]).
  • Advocates for integrating these genres into vocational writing curricula to make writing instruction more relevant and applied ([49:33]-[53:10]).

8. Gender, Age, and Identity in the Shop

• Being a Woman and Older Novice

  • Mackiewicz reflects on gender and age, noting that her positive experience may not be typical, and highlighting ongoing challenges and progress for women in the trades ([53:43]-[58:33]).
  • Discusses physical demands, supportive colleagues, and the importance of appropriate safety and workwear for women.

  “It’s been really cool. But, you know, before when I started, yeah, I was the only woman in the shop and I think that’s very, very, very difficult for a lot of women...” – Jo Mackiewicz ([53:43])

9. Safety Culture in Large vs. Small Shops

• Safety Practices
  • Contrasts robust, systematized safety protocols at large manufacturers with the resource-limited but highly attentive practices at smaller shops ([45:47]-[49:23]).
  • Firsthand account of a workplace injury underscores the risks and need for vigilance ([45:55]).

10. Learning Communities and Professional Identity

• Enculturation and Claiming an Identity

  • Discusses how participation in a ‘community of practice’—whether within one’s shop or a broader fabrication community—shapes identity ([59:13]).
  • Mackiewicz explores when it feels legitimate to claim the identity of welder or fabricator, noting both imposter feelings and pride in hard-won competence ([61:04]).

  “As we learn, we become enculturated into these communities… at what point have I learned enough to say that I am a part of it?” – Jo Mackiewicz ([59:13])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Empathy for Learners:
  “I thought I did before, but I think I’ve learned a whole new level of what it means to—and how frustrating it is—to not understand something where it feels like a wall.” ([10:38])

• On Learning Curve:
  “There have just been times when in trying to concentrate on all of the different variables of a task, I’ve forgotten something very basic or simple.” ([32:25])

• On “Dope Slap” Mistakes:
  “My definition for them is the sort of mistakes you make, but somebody off the street wouldn’t have made the same mistake.” ([36:06])

• On Documentation as Literacy:
  “We don’t think about shops as being like literate spaces where literacy is going on... but there are documents here.” ([49:33])

• On Identity:
  “When can you say that that is what you are? When can you claim that?... Am I still on the periphery, or have I finally made it into the interior?” ([59:13])

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [02:58] Motivation and personal journey into welding
• [04:07] Bridging communication research with welding instruction
• [05:45] Expertise development and shop environment
• [09:53] Reflections on being a student again and empathy for learners
• [12:47] Life at Houzz Welding and role of “job shops”
• [18:15] Explanation of scaffolded interactions
• [20:48] Learning overload and real-time instruction
• [28:43] Nonlinear progression of expertise and mistakes
• [35:10] Reading and discussing Mackiewicz’s taxonomy of mistakes
• [45:47] Safety considerations in shops
• [49:33] Shop genres and integrating shop literacy into education
• [53:43] Gender and age: experiences as a woman and older learner in trades
• [59:13] Community of practice and claiming a professional identity

Tone and Takeaway

The conversation is candid, warm, and reflective, filled with humility and humor. Mackiewicz’s stories and insights highlight the messiness and rewards of lifelong learning, the value of broad-based practical expertise, and the importance of community—whether academic or blue-collar—in fostering development. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in adult learning, communication, workplace training, vocational education, or the embodied realities of skilled manual labor.