Podcast Summary: Joanna Merwood-Salisbury, "Barbarian Architecture: Thorstein Veblen’s Chicago"
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Matthew Wells
Guest: Joanna Merwood-Salisbury
Book: Barbarian Architecture: Thorstein Veblen’s Chicago (MIT Press, 2024)
Date: November 26, 2025
Overview
In this episode, host Matthew Wells interviews architectural historian Joanna Merwood-Salisbury about her new book, Barbarian Architecture: Thorstein Veblen’s Chicago. The book offers a groundbreaking interdisciplinary examination of renowned economist and critic Thorstein Veblen, best known for his theory of “conspicuous consumption,” by situating his ideas within the spatial, social, and architectural evolution of Chicago in the 1890s. Merwood-Salisbury discusses Veblen’s relationship to architecture, the urban context of his theories, and the broader implications of his work for interpreting American modernity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Origins of the Book and Approach
[03:11]
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Joanna’s background is in architectural history, focused particularly on the so-called Chicago School of Architecture and revisionist readings of the skyscraper’s rise.
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Inspired by Mark Wigley’s interest in historiography, she questioned accepted narratives and delved into the reception of skyscrapers not just by architects, but ordinary Chicagoans.
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Veblen’s concept of “conspicuous consumption” frequently appeared in her previous research, but she noticed that his ideas were seldom analyzed in direct connection with the specific architectural and urban context of Chicago.
Quote:
“People use [Veblen’s theory] in history, in sociology... but the interesting thing for me was the way in which this theory that was written in a kind of totally disconnected from architecture situation... became received in architectural history.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [06:30]
2. Structuring the Book and the Concept of ‘Barbarian Architecture’
[11:10]
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The title comes from Veblen’s notion that Americans had “devolved” into a “barbarian state,” influenced by 19th-century social evolution discourses rooted in race science—now recognized as problematic.
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Veblen inverted contemporary ideas by positioning his own elite peers as “retrograde barbarians,” especially critiquing their social and architectural choices.
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The Theory of the Leisure Class blends satirical social critique with straight-faced academic theory, which initially complicated how Joanna could spatialize and contextualize Veblen’s ideas.
Quote:
“He explicitly positions his own peers as a kind of retrograde barbarian type... there was a kind of satirical intent that people understood, and they particularly understood it through the kind of conversation about reform that was going on in the States at the time.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [13:15]
3. Spatializing Veblen: World’s Columbian Exposition & Social Evolution
[15:47]
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The book opens with the 1893 World’s Columbian Exposition, analyzing how it presented Western progress through grand neoclassical architecture, while simultaneously displaying “primitive” architectures.
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Although Veblen never directly wrote about the fair, Joanna uses its spatial and architectural narratives to underscore Veblen’s argument that supposed progress might actually mask social regression.
Quote:
“The fair itself is an illustration through architecture of this kind of idea about progress. And Veblen... was a witness to this fair as it was being constructed right next to the University of Chicago.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [16:30]
4. Gothic Revival, the University, and Critique of the Elite
[21:40]
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Veblen harshly critiques institutions like the University of Chicago, seeing their Gothic Revival buildings as literal and symbolic expressions of “barbarian” values—structures reinforcing and displaying leisure class status rather than advancing education.
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These buildings were funded by elites and designed by Henry Ives Cobb, mirroring old-world medievalism amidst purported modernity.
Quote:
“It is as sort of symbolic display of leisure class values... that encourages a kind of education that promotes that and passes it on to the next generation, which he was very bitterly angry about.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [23:25]
5. Material Culture: Department Stores, Women’s Fashion, and Mass Consumption
[26:08]
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Both Veblen and Adolf Loos critiqued women’s high fashion as a sign of societal regression; this critique has been misapplied to department stores and ornamental architecture.
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Veblen himself hardly commented on the department store as a building—when he did, he viewed it functionally, more as an advertising device and a sales mechanism than as an architectural symbol.
Quote:
“He actually talks about... the department store not in the same terms as other leisure class examples of architecture. He just talks about it either as a kind of mechanism for delivering customers to a point of sale, or he talks about it as a kind of advertising, no different to a large billboard.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [29:30]
6. Industrial Democracy, Reform, and Hull House
[31:32]
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Joanna investigated possible links between Veblen and Chicago’s design reformers—especially through Jane Addams’ Hull House, which was a major hub for progressive, arts-and-crafts-inspired social reform.
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Veblen gave a lecture supporting the Hull House Labour Museum, aligning with Addams’ focus on labor and especially the transformative potential of women, while simultaneously remaining critical of “virtue signaling” among progressives.
Quote:
“Veblen... was very much in agreement with Addams that it was through women that a kind of way forward could be found... At the same time, Veblen was quite cynical about the activities of the progressive class.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [35:40]
7. Current and Future Research
[37:39]
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Joanna has published an article applying Veblen’s theories to a Frank Lloyd Wright house, particularly analyzing Wright’s dining chair as a status object.
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She is collaborating on studies concerning race, space, and the architecture of US imperialism in the Dominican Republic, extending Veblen’s ideas to broader global contexts.
Quote:
“Frank Lloyd Wright’s iconic chair, dining chair, as perhaps not an illustration of this kind of future industrial design as Wright intended it, but exactly as Veblen would have seen it—as an attempt to create a kind of new taste for the leisure class.”
— Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [38:00]
Notable Quotes
- “Why don’t we think about Veblen through the context of Chicago the way we think about Walter Benjamin through the lens of Paris...?” — Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [09:50]
- “The book, when it was published, was received in a sort of uncertain way because people weren’t used to this accusation that Americans were perhaps not the pinnacle of progress.” — Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [13:45]
- “Everything in what he called the pecuniary city or the city of capitalism is built in the service of capitalism.” — Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [29:00]
- “He was both drawn to Hull House, but also kind of suspicious of the motivations of some of the people who were involved in it.” — Joanna Merwood-Salisbury [36:40]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [03:11] Origins of the Book and Methodology
- [11:10] Theoretical and Historical Framework: Barbarianism & Architecture
- [15:47] Spatializing Veblen: World’s Columbian Exposition
- [21:40] Gothic Revival, University of Chicago, and Elite Critique
- [26:08] Department Stores, Fashion, and Misapplications
- [31:32] Design Reform & Hull House
- [37:39] Future Research and Applying Veblen
Tone
The conversation is rigorous yet accessible, balancing historical detail, theory, and playful critique—mirroring Veblen’s own blend of satire and scholarly analysis. Joanna’s responses are thoughtful, encouraging reflection on both the past and present architecture’s place in social structures.
This summary captures the full intellectual arc of the episode, from Veblen's urban theory origins through his critique of architecture and social reform, to the broader relevance of his ideas for architectural history and modern social critique.