Podcast Summary: New Books Network – Interview with John Goodall: "The Castle: A History" (Yale UP, 2022)
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. John Goodall
Date: November 17, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network features a conversation with Dr. John Goodall, distinguished architectural historian and author of "The Castle: A History." The discussion explores the multifaceted role and cultural legacy of castles in Britain, from their origins in the early Middle Ages to their ongoing presence—real and imagined—in contemporary society. Dr. Goodall elucidates how castles are more than just defensive structures: they are emblems of power, sites of myth and memory, and evolving architectural texts that reflect shifting social identities and historical attitudes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Goodall’s Background and Approach (01:32–06:10)

• Goodall trained as a medievalist and began his career at English Heritage, crafting guidebooks where he learned to convey the significance of castles within their physical context.
• As the architectural editor of Country Life, his view expanded beyond medieval buildings to architecture of all periods.
• Approach in the Book:
  • Blends archaeological, architectural, and narrative history.
  • The narrative is constructed from historical sources—chronicles, newspapers, poetry, and novels—giving primacy to how people from various periods themselves perceived and described castles.
  • Intended for both scholarly rigor and broad accessibility.

“This book... is really a whole series of narratives taken from everything from chronicles to newspaper accounts, poetry, novels of different periods, which describe castles through other people's eyes.” (05:15–05:21)

2. Defining 'Castle' – Beyond Defense (06:35–10:02)

• Conventional Definition: Nobleman’s residence that is defensible.
• Dr. Goodall’s Definition:
  • A nobleman’s residence, made “magnificent through the trappings of fortification” (battlements, towers), not solely defense, but as a demonstrative building expressing social identity.
  • Emphasis shifts from functionality to symbolism.

“If people call things a castle, it's not the responsibility of historians to tell them why they got it wrong, it's the responsibility of historians to explain what they meant.” (07:21–07:28)

3. Organizing the Book – Chronology and Themes (10:59–15:38)

• Structured as a broad chronology from Julius Caesar’s era through to modern constructs like the Disney Castle.
• Strives for a balanced representation across different time periods.
• Incorporates both real and fictional castles; examines castles as material sites and as objects of cultural imagination (e.g., Arthurian legend).
• Emphasizes the importance of interpreting historical perception—sometimes requiring the historian to “make the same mistakes as the past” to understand it from within.

“I used to think that there was a thing called the real history of a site. And then all these other things, all these other stories that people invented... Now... the distinction between them is not as clear as I used to think.” (14:29–14:50)

4. The Norman Conquest and the Arrival of Castles (17:00–22:12)

• Confirms that castles, as recognized today, are largely a Norman import, but notes complexity:
  • Some Norman influence pre-dates the conquest.
  • Anglo-Saxon England had fortified residences, but these lacked later castle attributes and did not serve as active military centers in narrative histories.
  • Post-conquest, castles rapidly proliferate as militarized power centers and symbols.

“There is a very complex history... but I think it is still fair to say that the Norman Conquest does really constitute a new beginning.” (22:04–22:12)

5. Castles, the Nobility, and ‘Ordinary’ People (23:36–27:15)

• Castles were not just homes, but also sites of tyranny, authority, and justice for the broader population.
• Featured narratives show castles as both admired for grandeur and feared as tools of oppression.
• Example: Construction of the Tower of London engendering terror among Londoners; legends like Thomas Becket’s ghost toppling its walls reflect collective anxiety.

“This sense that when the Normans start building castles in England, this is not some… byproduct of conquest. This is actually completely fundamental to the process.” (24:16–24:21)

• Judicial function illustrated by anecdotes, like court cases held within castle walls.

6. The Myth and Reality of Licenses to Crenellate (29:12–33:01)

• A “license to crenellate” (permission to fortify one’s residence) was less about royal control, more about social status; it was often a formality, purchased rather than strictly policed.
• Many true castles were built without formal licenses.
• These documents were more signals of privilege than effective state oversight.

“They are much more sort of passports to social status than anything else.” (32:03–32:06)

7. Castles and the English Civil War (33:11–37:15)

• Civil War marks a major break: many long-inhabited castles are ruined or deliberately demolished, changing the trajectory of English domestic architecture.
• Some castles and towns prove unexpectedly strong in sieges, resisting even gunpowder artillery for extended periods.
• The postwar Restoration sees a decisive shift—aristocrats build new types of residences, often in Continental baroque styles, signaling both a rupture and a new beginning.

“It’s a moment where the English nobility really start living completely differently in totally new buildings almost overnight.” (37:16–37:29)

8. The Gothic Revival and Romantic Reimaginings (38:26–43:01)

• 19th-century Gothic Revival reawakens fascination with castles, both as symbols of tyranny (Gothic novels) and as idealized sites of chivalry and heritage.
• Influential works: Horace Walpole’s “Castle of Otranto” and Walter Scott’s novels.
• Social phenomena like the Eglinton Tournament reveal how romanticized medievalism shaped culture and even inspired real restoration/construction.
• The Middle Ages become a canvas for imagining social ideals and historic authenticity.

“In a romantic sense, they made castles seem to live again.” (39:51–39:54)

9. Modern Preservation and Interpretation (44:02–46:35, 48:23–54:26)

• Shifts in heritage attitudes:
  • From seeing ruins as “texts” to be stripped to their ‘original’ state, to attempts at making history “live again” through reconstruction and interpretation.
  • Institutions now grapple with the challenges of presenting complicated histories, especially questions around slavery and social injustice, sometimes lagging behind private owners in fully addressing the complexities.
• The landscape today is mixed: ruined, restored and still-lived-in castles coexist and invite a range of responses.

“Our whole treatment of buildings involves tensions between so many different interests.” (44:26–44:29)

10. Challenges of Reconstructing Historic Interiors (49:39–54:26)

• Accurately reconstructing castle interiors is fraught: material limitations, loss of context, and chronological “telescoping” can result in anachronistic or misleading spaces.
• Reconstructions—even when well-researched—tend to reflect the time of their creation more than historical reality.

“We run the risk often of constructing historic interiors in inverted commas that no person in history would recognize.” (53:37–53:40)

11. Looking Forward (55:09–56:00)

• Goodall is immersed in regular journalistic work on architectural history but hints at a possible future book on the English Perpendicular Gothic style.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Defining Castles:

  • “A building, a nobleman's residence, that uses the trappings of fortification… to demonstrative effect as an expression of social identity…” (08:46–09:05)

• Myth vs. History:

  • “You need to make the same mistakes as the past if you're going to understand the past.” (15:38)

• On Civil War and Change:

  • “When the restoration comes, there are lots of people who have been in exile abroad… They come back and they find their ancestral homes in ruins... and they build something completely different.” (36:36–36:45)

• On Restoration and Authenticity:

  • “Historic interiors in inverted commas that no person in history would recognize. So it's difficult. It's worthwhile, too… but… it’s a very difficult thing to do successfully.” (53:37–54:08)

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | |---|---| | 01:32–06:10 | Goodall’s background and methodology | | 06:35–10:02 | Defining castles | | 10:59–15:38 | Chronology and structuring history; myth vs. reality | | 17:00–22:12 | Castles and the Norman conquest | | 23:36–27:15 | Ordinary people’s relationship to castles | | 29:12–33:01 | Licenses to crenellate | | 33:11–37:15 | Civil War and its aftermath | | 38:26–43:01 | Gothic Revival and romantic perceptions | | 44:02–46:35 | Modern preservation: authenticity, memory, and conflict | | 49:39–54:26 | Problems of historical reinterpretation and reconstruction | | 55:09–56:00 | Works in progress; future plans |

Tone and Language

The conversation is informed, engaging, and accessible—balancing scholarly perspective with vivid anecdotes and a strong awareness of the continuing appeal of castles in modern culture and imagination.

Summary prepared for listeners and non-listeners alike, with clarity, attribution, and critical insights from Dr. John Goodall’s comprehensive historical and cultural study of castles.