Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Joseph Scalia III and Lynne S. Scalia

Episode Title: Critical Consciousness: Beyond Impasses in Environmentalism, Psychoanalysis, and Education
Host: Ben Greenberg
Guest: Dr. Joseph Scalia III
Date: February 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network features a deep, searching conversation with Dr. Joseph Scalia III, co-author (with Lynne S. Scalia) of Critical Consciousness: Beyond Impasses in Environmentalism, Psychoanalysis, and Education (Routledge, 2025). The episode explores how environmentalism, psychoanalysis, and education have become stuck in stale dogmas and systems, calling for radical democratic transformation across these fields. With frank reflection, Dr. Scalia discusses his journey as a psychoanalyst, activist, and educator, challenging ossified institutions while emphasizing the need for humility, self-inquiry, and genuine collective transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation Behind the Book

(02:42 – 07:11)

• Ossification in Institutions: Dr. Scalia identifies a pervasive stagnation across the fields of psychoanalysis, environmentalism, and education—institutions becoming self-replicating and resistant to genuine change.
• Democratic Practice: Both Scalias are committed to not just theorizing about democracy, but practicing it, especially within their own psychoanalytic institute.
• Failures Across Movements: Mainstream and grassroots environmentalism often fail to adapt and communicate effectively with society at large, perpetuating outdated or insular strategies.

“Can we at the Institute for Democratic Psychoanalysis be democratic?”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (04:19)

2. Intertwining of Activism, Psychoanalysis, and Pedagogy

(07:11 – 13:47)

• Cross-Pollination of Disciplines: The book synthesizes lessons from Scalia’s roles as environmental activist, psychoanalyst, and educator, revealing parallel impasses in each sphere.
• Education’s Complicity: Lynn Scalia’s chapter highlights how educational institutions have served neoliberal capitalism rather than real transformation.
• Need for Collective Transformation: The conversation identifies society’s urgent need for new ways of relating and acting, a motif threaded throughout the book.

“There’s so many attacks on this need for collective societal transformation, which is one of the main themes…”
— Ben Greenberg (08:52)

3. Democracy, Mondialization, and the Common Good

(13:07 – 15:34)

• Inspiration from Castoriadis & Apollon: Scalia discusses the concepts of true democracy (from Castoriadis) and mondialization (from Apollon; contrasted with globalization)—both advocating for societies oriented toward the common good, not mere political or economic alignment.
• Civic Transformation: True democracy requires individuals and societies to be mutually constitutive and actively engaged in recurring self-inquiry and collective responsibility.

“I as an individual have been made democratic by society and then democratic individuals make a democratic society. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg?”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (12:34)

4. Human Transformation & The Risks of Dehumanization

(13:47 – 19:09)

• The Threat of ‘Homo Roboticus’: Dr. Scalia and Ben reflect on the perils of reducing humanity to mechanisms—whether by AI ideologies or ossified institutions—and losing sight of the subjective core of being human.
• Psychoanalytic Subjectification: Authentic psychoanalysis should foster individuals' emergence as unique subjects, not mere products of dogma or groupthink.

“What’s at risk here if we don’t live up to the definition of homo sapiens… Homo roboticus… the desire to allow the death drive to just let us destroy the source of life…”
— Ben Greenberg (13:47–15:31)

5. The Institute for Democratic Psychoanalysis (IDP) & Psychoanalytic Education Reform

(15:34 – 21:37)

• A New Psychoanalytic Model: The IDP is structured to break from traditional, hierarchical, or authoritarian psychoanalytic training—pushing for truly democratic, pluralistic, and self-reflexive practices.
• Reforming Analyst Formation: Dr. Scalia calls into question the sufficiency of classical psychoanalytic education and emphasizes the need for analysts to undergo a genuine process of becoming, entailing personal transformation and openness to multiple schools of thought.

“What is possible to do instead of those two things [authoritarianism or laissez-faire]? And so that’s why we formed... [IDP].”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (16:58)

6. Authority, Ossification, and the Analytic ‘Mystic’

(21:37 – 29:26)

• Challenges to the Establishment: Both Scalia and Greenberg recount resistance met when pushing against entrenched psychoanalytic authorities.
• Christopher Bollas’ Ethical Mandate: Bollas’ influence is discussed—particularly his insistence that analysts immerse themselves in multiple theoretical schools, avoiding “one truth” dogmatism.
• The Outlier’s Burden: References to figures like Rollo May and Foucault’s parrhesia—the courage to speak truth against power.

“He [Bollas] said it is an ethical obligation… for all psychoanalysts to immerse themselves in the theoretical orientation of the major schools…”
— Ben Greenberg quoting Christopher Bollas (23:40)

7. The Loneliness and Necessity of Companionship on the Analyst’s Path

(29:26 – 35:42)

• The Solitary Journey: Scalia describes the emotional weight and occasional loneliness inherent to analytic work and institutional critique, and the importance of enduring relationships with colleagues willing to journey with him across traditions and challenges.
• Personal Examples: Cites his ongoing, decades-long dialogue with Charles Turk as an example of mutual support and intellectual growth.

“It’s a tough journey in some ways and joyous in others… fueling of life… but there’s a loneliness.”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (31:03)

8. Terra and Demos: Rethinking Human/Nature Relations

(35:42 – 40:49)

• Personal Narrative and Wildness: Through evocative storytelling, Scalia describes his transformative immersion in the Montana wilderness—coming into adulthood and selfhood through direct, risky, and humbling experience of the “real.”
• The Human in Nature: He critiques the false division between humanity and nature that persists in environmentalism, advocating for a unified ethic informed by psychoanalytic self-examination.
• Facing Death as Life’s Affirmation: The proximity to danger and death in wild places is understood as a vital confrontation—the very opposite of the deadening effects of technological and institutional detachment.

“When I am there, I am alive and I am a human… I know… that I am alive and human in a way that would be impossible without such places and things.”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (36:53, from his own writing, read by Greenberg)

9. Failings & Aims within Psychoanalysis and Environmentalism

(40:49 – 52:49)

• Limitations of the Profession: Dr. Scalia levels a hard critique: most psychoanalysts, and indeed most people, never reach the ‘end’ of their own analysis, nor the capacity for true independent thought—often unknowingly “pretending” at liberation or critical consciousness.
• Critical Consciousness as a Project: The book aims to shock both mainstream and grassroots environmentalists (and psychoanalysts) into seeing how their reflexive certainty blinds them to unexamined assumptions and thus stymies genuine change.

“Most psychoanalysts… are only, as Apollon has put it, pretending to be psychoanalysts, that is, have not reached the ‘end of analysis’.”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (44:04)

10. New Conservation Ethics & Radical Self-Inquiry

(51:17 – 52:49)

• Terra and Demos Revisited: Scalia calls for “a new conservation ethic that is linked inextricably with an evolved ethic for human relations,” insisting on the inseparability of environmental and human liberation.
• Lifelong Self-Examination: The conversation returns repeatedly to the importance of humility, recognizing our own potential for split, projection, and stagnation.

“Only an ethic that pairs the good of all people and the good of every component of the earth… offers humanity a chance.”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III (Reading, 52:08)

11. Small Pockets of Resistance and Hope

(56:03 – end)

• The Importance of Companionship: In referencing Thomas Ogden, Scalia highlights the necessity of “small pockets of resistance”—solidarities between individuals committed to thinking and living otherwise, supporting each other against mainstream conformism.
• Hope as an Ethical Stance: With Franco “Bifo” Berardi, the episode ends on a call to persistence—not because victory is probable, but because continued meaningful action is fundamental to living ethically.

“We don’t know if we’ll ever get there, but we must behave as though we can… because… what else is there to do?”
— Dr. Joseph Scalia III quoting Franco Berardi (60:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Institutional Failure:
  “Mainstream environmentalism… has failed, but grassroots, too, is stuck in the past… it just is like, ‘this land is beautiful, we should preserve it.’ And I’m like, well, duh. But… it’s not working.”
  — Scalia (05:25)

• On the Analytic Journey:
  “It’s a tough journey in some ways and joyous in others… but there’s a loneliness and to have some very close colleagues… that’s for me has been very important and is.”
  — Scalia (31:03)

• On Wildness and Humanity:
  “When I am there, I am alive and I am a human in a way that would be impossible without such places and things.”
  — Scalia (36:53, quoting his own prose)

• On the Deadening Effects of Institutes:
  “There really is something… dead deadening… about psychoanalytic institutes.”
  — Greenberg (19:12)

• On Critical Consciousness and Humility:
  “It’s a lifelong journey to be examining ourselves… to detoxify from what gets projectively identified and lodged inside of us, often in isolation.”
  — Greenberg (51:30)

• On Hope and Action:
  “We must behave as though we can [achieve liberation]… What else is there to do?”
  — Scalia (60:15, channeling Berardi)

Key Timestamps for Essential Segments

• [02:42] – Scalia outlines motivations for the book & notes institutional ossification
• [04:39] – Mainstream vs grassroots environmentalism; failures and missed opportunities
• [09:26] – Host prompts deep discussion of societal ‘transformation’
• [13:07] – Democracy, Castoriadis, and mondialization introduced
• [15:34] – Founding of the Institute for Democratic Psychoanalysis (IDP)
• [21:53] – Christopher Bollas’ influence on Scalia and psychoanalytic ethics
• [35:42] – Scalia discusses coming-into-being in wilderness, read-aloud from book
• [40:49] – The paradox of “pretending analyst” and crisis of psychoanalytic formation
• [51:17] – Call for a new Terra and Demos-based conservation ethic
• [56:03] – Small pockets of resistance as seedbeds of real change
• [60:09] – Conclusion: holding onto hope and the imperative to act

Final Reflection

This is a passionate and nuanced exchange, refusing easy answers and continually interrogating the self, the group, and the world. The necessity of radical self-inquiry, humility, and new forms of democratic practice—across psychoanalysis, environmentalism, and education—resonates not just as intellectual critique, but as an existential imperative. The conversation invites listeners to imagine themselves inside these “small pockets of resistance,” and challenges them to ask: Where, and with whom, will I commit to a more vital, honest, and transformative way of living?