Podcast Summary:

New Books Network
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Julian Schmidt
Book Discussed: Marvel, DC and US Security: The Superhero Genre and Foreign Policy in the Twenty-first Century (Edinburgh University Press, 2025)
Date: December 12, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Miranda Melcher interviews Dr. Julian Schmidt about his new book, which examines how the superhero genre—particularly Marvel and DC—intertwines with US foreign policy and national security from before 9/11 through the War on Terror, Obama and Trump eras, up to the present. Dr. Schmidt analyzes not only the films and comics themselves but also how superhero myths both reflect and inform national myths, anxieties, and identity at key political moments. The conversation provides an accessible entry point to understanding the intersection of popular culture, international relations, and political discourse.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Genesis of the Book and Its Scholarly Context

[02:14-04:36]

• Dr. Schmidt was inspired by the observable synergy between 9/11, the subsequent US War on Terror, and the massive rise of superheroes in cinema and popular culture.
  • “After 9/11, we can really see and observe this massive invigoration of the superhero genre… especially on television and in the cinema, they're kind of like, really starting to surge.” [02:32]
• Coming from Austria, Schmidt brings an outside perspective on America’s global cultural influence.
• He positions his work in an international relations subfield that explores how violence and security narratives often have roots in cultural products, especially discourses and myths that pre-date actual conflict.

2. Superhero Myths and American National Identity

[07:15-11:06]

• There are deep parallels between superhero origin stories and enduring national myths about American exceptionalism and heroism.
  • “A key aspect of especially American popular culture that I look at here is the role of the individual. So heroism and kind of contributions to a form of community.” [08:24]
• The US foregrounds individual acts of heroism (the Founding Fathers, WWII soldiers), a logic mirrored in superhero narratives.
• This contrasts with other cultures (e.g., East Asian) where the individual’s role is understood differently.

3. Superhero Narratives in the Post-Cold War and Identity Crisis

[11:23-14:31]

• After the Cold War, the US lacked a clear antagonist, leading to a kind of identity crisis mirrored in superhero films (e.g., the Batman films of the 1990s focused on Gotham rather than global threats).
  • “Superheroes do not have a purpose if they cannot fight an antagonist.” [12:34]
• The War on Drugs failed to fill this villain gap, and US foreign policy mirrored the lack of narrative clarity, until the War on Terror reintroduced an “evil” antagonist.

4. 9/11 and the Recasting of Heroism and Vulnerability

[14:31-18:36]

• 9/11 ushered in new superhero stories that reflected American vulnerability and failures of power.
• Cinematic superheroes lag behind in direct reactions but are quickly read by audiences as responding to real-world events.
  • “Superheroes really reflect this sense of… an absence of superheroism. We could not prevent this with this hit is really unexpected.” [16:48]
• Comics briefly reckoned with failure: a Spider-Man comic set at Ground Zero probes why heroes didn’t save the day.

5. Superheroes as Politically Flexible Symbols

[19:13-23:58]

• Superheroes gain their enduring popularity partly because both liberals and conservatives can project their politics onto them. For example, The Dark Knight (2008) served as a critique of Bush’s War on Terror for some, a vindication of his policies for others.
  • “Superheroes are so popular because they can always be read from different sides, from different sides of the political aisle… They never declare themselves.” [19:13]
• Iconic heroes function beyond the core “fan” audience; their narratives and visuals are instantly recognizable culturally, even without consumption.

6. The Obama Era: Defensive Heroism and Team Narratives

[24:13-30:53]

• The first Obama term saw reboots of classic heroes (Captain America, Thor) reflecting a more “modest” and defensive masculinity, echoing Obama’s approach to foreign policy.
  • “Captain America wears a shield… a defensive tool… also World War II was fought against the backdrop of fighting for the protection of civilization.” [25:08]
• In Obama’s second term, ensemble stories like The Avengers and Justice League channeled a “team effort,” but films such as Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) criticized surveillance and drone programs—while ultimately reinforcing trust in the “right” hands wielding power.

7. Superheroes in the Trump Era and the Rise of Culture Wars

[31:06-34:52]

• Criticizing Trump or Trumpism in superhero films was politically safe, as Trump’s solid base did not constitute the majority.
• The “culture wars” are reflected in complaints against increasing diversity or “wokeness” in superhero films (Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Black Panther), yet right-wing audiences also appropriated characters: “Even a black superhero can be read apparently… as one of their own.” [33:57]

8. The Superhero Framework During the 2020 Election and Beyond

[35:09-38:18]

• Superhero tropes were invoked in the 2020 election: Trump retweeted images likening himself to Thanos; Van Jones lauded Biden’s victory as “Avengers vs. Thanos.”
  • “His [Biden’s] first reaction is, this was like Thanos against the Avengers. And this works because… we understand this image… without… having seen any of these texts.” [36:23]
• The “team-up to save civilization” remains a powerful metaphor in times of profound crisis.

9. Recent Trends: Flawed Heroes and Global Challenges

[38:37-41:34]

• Lately, superhero TV shows (She-Hulk, Jessica Jones, WandaVision) foreground flawed, “private” struggles, reflecting a shift from saving the world to smaller, personal battles.
• These narratives signal an awareness that today’s crises (climate change, pandemics, economic instability) can’t be solved through force—a challenge for the superhero (and nation-state) mythos itself.
  • “Superheroes don’t really have an answer to that [the Anthropocene or climate change].” [40:35]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Identity and Superheroes:
  “The US… always foregrounds individual acts of heroism… that leads us from the founding of the United States essentially all the way to World War II as well.” – Dr. Julian Schmidt [09:10]

• On the 1990s Superhero Identity Crisis:
  “Superheroes… and the United States in the 1990s… are just really missing having this antagonistic other, this evil other side, where they can prove to the world… they are fighting for the right things.” – Dr. Julian Schmidt [12:39]

• On Superheroes as Political Rorschach Tests:
  “If you're liberal, you will think that Batman is a liberal. If you're conservative, you'll think that Batman's a conservative.” – Dr. Julian Schmidt [22:20]

• On the Limits of Heroism in the Anthropocene:
  “Superheroes don’t really have an answer to that [climate change]. There might come a time when superheroes will be able to answer these questions. I can’t at the moment see how, though…” – Dr. Julian Schmidt [40:35]

Suggested Timestamps & Segment Map

• 02:14 — Dr. Schmidt’s academic and personal background
• 04:56 — Security studies, culture, and the roots of violence
• 08:24 — American myths and their reflection in superhero stories
• 11:23 — Post-Cold War crisis in superhero and US narratives
• 14:31 — 9/11 turns superheroes into reflections of American vulnerability
• 19:13 — Superheroes as ideologically flexible icons
• 24:13 — Obama era: Defensive heroism and assembling teams
• 27:28 — Second Obama term: Critique and continuity in heroism
• 31:06 — Trump era culture wars, representation and superhero politics
• 35:09 — 2020 election and pop-culture metaphors in political discourse
• 38:37 — Contemporary trend: flawed and private heroes; limits of superhero solutions

Closing Reflections

Dr. Schmidt concludes by observing that while superheroes have long helped Americans process national dilemmas and changing global threats, they now face narrative boundaries—today’s transnational, existential problems (climate change, pandemics) resist the simple, violent solutions that superhero myths traditionally offer.

He suggests that future scholarship and storytelling must reckon with this, and he’s turning his own research toward how popular culture might (or might not) help us process crises like the Anthropocene.

To Learn More:
The book discussed is Marvel, DC and US Security: The Superhero Genre and Foreign Policy in the Twenty-first Century (Edinburgh University Press, 2025).

Summary prepared for listeners who haven’t heard the episode. All quotes and timestamps referenced directly from the podcast conversation.