Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "Just Stare at the Damn Wall!"
Guest: Mark Shinji Blacknell
Host: Matthew O’Connell (Imperfect Buddha Podcast @ New Books Network)
Date: April 7, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode features an in-depth conversation between Matthew O’Connell and Mark Shinji Blacknell, author of the new book Just Stare at the Damn Wall! (later retitled Just Stare at the Wall). The discussion centers on the ethos and paradoxes of Zen Buddhist practice, the pitfalls and possibilities of “helping,” the realities of “sangha” outside traditional contexts, the limits of compassion, enlightenment, and the lived journey of contemporary contemplative life—including meditation with death row inmates and senior citizens.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Provocative Title: "Just Stare at the Damn Wall!"
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Origin & Intention
- The title springs from Blacknell’s intention not to sell or preach, but simply to urge readers to put down the book and practice zazen (Zen meditation):
“My intent is not to sell anything. My intent is not to preach anything. And my intent is just to get folks to stare at the wall and let that do the talking for itself.” – Mark (05:50)
- Literary agent feedback (“take the ‘damn’ out!”) led to the finalized, milder title and is shared in the book’s introduction for transparency.
- The title springs from Blacknell’s intention not to sell or preach, but simply to urge readers to put down the book and practice zazen (Zen meditation):
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The Paradox of Words vs. Silence
- The book repeatedly nudges readers to “put this book down and meditate”—highlighting the Zen tension between practice and discourse.
“There is a compatibility issue, maybe, but there it is. I guess we know that communication is part and parcel of the human condition.” – Matthew (06:46)
- The book repeatedly nudges readers to “put this book down and meditate”—highlighting the Zen tension between practice and discourse.
2. From Tradition to Direct Experience: Leaving the "Sangha," Discovering Community
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Disenchantment with Institutional Zen
- Blacknell’s sense of isolation after conflict within his Sangha led him to a more personal, organic path:
“Instead of me kind of saying, well, what's the point of all this if we're not going to practice what we preach?...I just sat in a balanced position. I began to realize…this whole thing is about personifying to the best of our abilities...to put ourselves in a balanced position, like nature itself, and let that balance seep into us.” – Mark (10:37)
- Disconnection from the doctrinal and hierarchical aspects of Zen allowed for a rediscovery of practice amid everyday life.
- Blacknell’s sense of isolation after conflict within his Sangha led him to a more personal, organic path:
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Redefining Sangha
- Rather than a traditional Buddhist congregation, Blacknell’s “sangha” became the people he worked with: high school athletes, prisoners, and seniors:
“My Sangha was the high school soccer team. My Sangha was the assisted living home. And my Sangha was the death row inmates in Florida.” – Mark (13:28)
- Rather than a traditional Buddhist congregation, Blacknell’s “sangha” became the people he worked with: high school athletes, prisoners, and seniors:
3. Practice as Living Art and the “Coach Within”
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Contemporary, Non-Buddhist Language
- To reach diverse communities, Blacknell avoids Buddhist jargon in favor of practical language (“focus drills” instead of “meditation”):
“I don't use even the word Buddha. I don't use Dharma…The typical terms. I don't use them just because of the people I was working with—the real humans in my own life.” – Mark (14:54)
- To reach diverse communities, Blacknell avoids Buddhist jargon in favor of practical language (“focus drills” instead of “meditation”):
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The "Coach" Metaphor
- Instead of mystical voices or Buddhist concepts, Blacknell invokes the "coach"—a warm, stable internal guide reminding us to act on practical needs:
“Coach is pretty consistent, and it's real simple…If our trash is full, we empty the trash…It's not ego. It's just practical and it always has the team in mind.” – Mark (20:23)
- Instead of mystical voices or Buddhist concepts, Blacknell invokes the "coach"—a warm, stable internal guide reminding us to act on practical needs:
4. Beyond Mystical Ideology: Practice as Basic Biology
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Balanced Posture & Simplicity
- Blacknell demystifies meditation by emphasizing physical balance over esoteric goals:
“It's kind of like eating well or exercising…If we put ourselves in a balanced position each morning…our body starts to influence us…on a scientific level, I don't really know how it works.” – Mark (24:44, 26:51)
- Blacknell demystifies meditation by emphasizing physical balance over esoteric goals:
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Settling the Mind
- Regular practice brings about clarity, warmth, and resilience in the face of suffering:
“When I sit down, everything is so wobbly…then after a few minutes, it starts to settle down and I get this kind of warmth in my stomach...then the coach says, man, this is a miracle.” – Mark (29:17)
- Regular practice brings about clarity, warmth, and resilience in the face of suffering:
5. The Limits and Pragmatism of Compassion
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Practical Compassion
- Blacknell resists static self-identities like “helper,” viewing his community work as fulfilling first for himself (and his family):
“I help people for myself, number one. And number two, I help people for my family and then my community. And then if there's anything left over, I do it for God.” – Mark (16:32)
- Blacknell resists static self-identities like “helper,” viewing his community work as fulfilling first for himself (and his family):
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Humorous & Honest Storytelling
- Memorable “roach compassion” tale demonstrates the complexity and limits of helping in real life—sometimes practicality takes precedence:
“I waited till they came back under the mat and I grabbed the vacuum cleaner and I suck them all up in one scoop. So what's my message there? We have to be practical in our compassion.” – Mark (35:34)
- Memorable “roach compassion” tale demonstrates the complexity and limits of helping in real life—sometimes practicality takes precedence:
6. Demystifying Enlightenment
- Chasing Enlightenment Is a Trap
- Blacknell’s approach is to deconstruct “enlightenment” as a special status, suggesting that those who claim it should be avoided:
“If somebody says they're enlightened, run away. If somebody says somebody else, like a teacher or guru is enlightened, run even faster. Just get away as quick as you can.” – Mark (39:52)
- True enlightenment is marked by humility, basic happiness, and naturalness—often in ordinary people.
- All beings have “a niche in the whole”—enlightenment is living in harmony with this.
- Blacknell’s approach is to deconstruct “enlightenment” as a special status, suggesting that those who claim it should be avoided:
7. Meeting Darkness and “Nothingness”
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Practice Meets Terror and Healing
- Blacknell speaks of difficult meditation sessions and facing difficult memories—likens meditation to prolonged exposure therapy.
“Sometimes when I meditate, it's pure torture. It’s hell. It literally is hell…But as a veteran…I went through 18 months of what they call prolonged exposure therapy…If you do it over and over again, those fears lose their grip.” – Mark (47:11, 50:13)
- Blacknell speaks of difficult meditation sessions and facing difficult memories—likens meditation to prolonged exposure therapy.
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Balance as Buffer
- Accepting difficult emotions as natural, not as deficits, supports psychological resilience and honest self-inquiry.
8. Meditation with Death Row Inmates: Practice in Extremis
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Profound Transformations
- Blacknell describes his ongoing work with a man on death row whose focus has shifted from self-concern to apologizing to victims and helping others:
“The guy that I started working with and the guy that I talk to now, they're not even the same human being…it's because he sat there and he faced all this stuff and as much as possible he freed himself.” – Mark (53:00)
- Blacknell describes his ongoing work with a man on death row whose focus has shifted from self-concern to apologizing to victims and helping others:
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The Need for Mental Stability
- Meditation is not a panacea and requires psychological grounding; spiritual seekers are often referred to medical/mental health services first:
“There's no point in working with someone unless they're at a relative level of stability, because otherwise it's pointless and it can make people worse.” – Mark (56:49)
- Meditation is not a panacea and requires psychological grounding; spiritual seekers are often referred to medical/mental health services first:
9. Buddhism, Money, and Humility
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Rejecting Commercialization
- Blacknell separates his practice from his income, avoids monetizing spiritual teaching, and is wary of linking spirituality and commerce:
“Keep your living separate…If I was to consider my practice or my teaching as my living…The customer is always right…But for me, money can't be involved.” – Mark (61:00)
- Blacknell separates his practice from his income, avoids monetizing spiritual teaching, and is wary of linking spirituality and commerce:
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Humility Through Service
- Driving seniors’ buses—seen by some as “low status”—reminds him not to “become enlightened” in his own mind, and to stay humble and grounded (63:12).
10. Honest Acknowledgement of Ongoing Struggle
- On Being Human
- Acceptance and compassion for one’s own limitations, especially in personal relationships:
“The thing that I still have not mastered is intimate relationships with females…So it's always work, always a work in progress.” – Mark (65:52)
- Acceptance and compassion for one’s own limitations, especially in personal relationships:
11. Death, Clarity, and Letting Go
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Final Words on Purpose
- The “purpose of life” is pared down to facing death with “clear awareness and love”—but not clinging to even that ideal:
“To die with a clear awareness and love in my heart. But I don’t want to get too caught up in that idea because I have no idea what’s going to happen when the time comes. All I can do is put myself...in a balanced position.” – Mark (67:19)
- The “purpose of life” is pared down to facing death with “clear awareness and love”—but not clinging to even that ideal:
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Self-Publishing and Moving Forward
- Mark is likely to self-publish the book, embracing the “wildness” of his approach and the benefits of modern independent publishing (68:23).
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
“My intent is not to sell anything. My intent is not to preach anything. And my intent is just to get folks to stare at the wall and let that do the talking for itself.” – Mark (05:50)
“My Sangha was the high school soccer team. My Sangha was the assisted living home. And my Sangha was the death row inmates in Florida.” – Mark (13:28)
“Coach is pretty consistent, and it's real simple…It's not ego. It's just practical and it always has the team in mind.” – Mark (20:23)
“Just be like a seed or a cat. I like cats. Cats are really cool. You know, there’s a chapter in my book called One Cool Cat.” – Mark (45:36)
“If somebody says they’re enlightened, run away. If somebody says somebody else…is enlightened, run even faster.” – Mark (39:52)
“Sometimes when I meditate, it’s pure torture…But as a veteran…I went through 18 months of what they call prolonged exposure therapy…If you do it over and over again, those fears lose their grip.” – Mark (47:11, 50:13)
“The guy...I started working with and the guy I talk to now, they're not even the same human being…it's because he sat there and he faced all this stuff…” – Mark (53:00)
“To die with a clear awareness and love in my heart. But I don't want to get too caught up in that idea because I have no idea what's going to happen when the time comes.” – Mark (67:19)
Additional Resources
Guest info: stare@thewall.org (69:36)
Host site: imperfectbuddha.com
Summary:
This episode vibrantly illustrates Mark Shinji Blacknell’s iconoclastic, down-to-earth approach to Zen, rooted in community service, therapeutic realism, and humility. The conversation is funny, vulnerable, and rich with stories that demystify contemplative practice and bring it closer to everywhere life—flaws and all.