Podcast Summary:

New Books Network: Interview with Justin Wyatt, Author of "Creating the Viewer: Market Research and the Evolving Media Ecosystem"
Host: Pete Kunze
Guest: Justin Wyatt
Published: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into Justin Wyatt’s book, Creating the Viewer: Market Research and the Evolving Media Ecosystem (U Texas Press, 2024). The conversation explores Wyatt's unique journey in both academia and industry, the nuances of media market research, its history, the interplay between theory and practice, and the ongoing challenges and future directions for audience studies within an ever-shifting digital landscape.

Wyatt's Background and Motivations

[02:33 - 12:31]

• Academic-Industry Blend: Wyatt details his academic roots in economics and film at UCLA and extensive industry experience, including tenure at National Research Group and major networks like ABC, NBCUniversal, and Viacom.
  • “I had this kind of mixed background of business and aesthetics… business and media.” — Justin Wyatt [03:12]
• Aims for the Book: The book was designed to fill a gap for both academics and practitioners—sharing real industry methods (including sample questionnaires) and critiquing their limits.
• Challenges of Industry Secrecy: NDA culture around market research often obscures the actual influence of viewer feedback on creative products.
  • “In the industry, no one wants to talk about media market research because… it's a creative product; they think they know more than the viewers.” — Justin Wyatt [10:50]
• Dual Approach: The book alternates between explaining the research methods in use and critiquing their adequacy for truly understanding modern viewership.

Inside/Outside: Scholar vs. Industry Perspectives

[12:31 - 19:22]

• Negotiating Insider/Outsider Status: Wyatt shares how his academic background was kept quiet in industry settings to avoid bias, yet found practical use—especially when translating theory (like star studies) into actionable industry insight.

• Unexpected Findings: Through focus group research (notably on Keeping up with the Kardashians), many of Wyatt’s initial academic hypotheses were disproven:

  • “All of my initial hypotheses… didn’t hold. What I found… [was] the fantasy of having a large number of sisters… and the blended family aspect.” — Justin Wyatt [16:40]
  • The main draw was character connection over narrative complexity.

• Curiosity is Key: Effective research, according to Wyatt, demands genuine curiosity and openness to being surprised by viewers' responses.

  • “If you're a market researcher… you should be a blank slate.” — Justin Wyatt [20:16]

Theoretical Traditions: Spectatorship vs. Audience Studies

[21:29 - 30:05]

• Spectrum of Audience Research: Wyatt articulates the movement from spectatorship studies (imagined responses) toward more empirical, method-driven audience studies.

  • Market research can offer a corrective to theoretical abstractions, pushing for nuance and complexity in defining viewers.

• Challenges in Representation: Industry conceptions of “the viewer” are often narrow (reflecting executives' own demographics), and research aims to break these conceptions and reveal true diversity.

  • “You construct an image of the viewer… my challenges… was… to define the viewer in multiple ways, beyond metrics.” — Justin Wyatt [23:13]

• Call for Nuance: Emphasis on going beyond mere metrics and understanding the diverse, sometimes contradictory, lived realities of audiences.

• Changing Engagements: Gen Z’s engagement with TV and movies is far less central than that of previous generations, shifting toward gaming and social media.

  • “By the time you get to Gen Z, video gaming was at 39% and it was number one.” — Justin Wyatt [26:30]

Defining Viewer vs. Audience

[30:05 - 33:52]

• Semantic Distinction: Wyatt distinguishes between “viewer” (the individual, rich in contradictions) and “audience” (the aggregate, driven by metrics and sales).

  • "Creating the Audience… would have been a book more about ways to engage with audiences to get more viewing. […] Creating the Viewer is about the individual." — Justin Wyatt [31:16]

• Industry Priorities: For networks, the main goal is maximizing viewing time and profitability, often foregrounding the “audience” over the “viewer.”

  • “All I really care about is making as much money as possible.” — Anonymous industry exec (as recounted by Wyatt) [32:28]

Digital Disruption and Evolving Media Landscapes

[33:52 - 42:20]

• Beyond TV and Film: Social media platforms like Facebook and TikTok have become primary forms of entertainment, often exceeding traditional TV for younger generations.
  • “The appeal of Facebook is it's drama and it's comedy—of my own friends… TV is never gonna be able to compete with that.” — Justin Wyatt [35:35]
• Market Research Lag: The proliferation of platforms and fragmented viewing behavior challenge traditional market research methods.
• Limitations of Surveys: Current methodologies (e.g., brand tracking) often presuppose a meaningful connection to a brand that may not exist.
  • “A lot of the Traditional surveys… there's a flawed concept at the basis here, and that is that we have a connection to the brand in the first place.” — Justin Wyatt [40:12]

Inclusivity and the “Media Left Behind”

[42:22 - 47:46]

• Privilege and Accessibility: Wyatt and Kunze reflect on how not all audiences have access to streaming or digital platforms—many rely on broadcast, cable, Redbox, and DVDs. Market research often privileges the 18-49 demo, possibly neglecting older or less affluent viewers.
• Methodological Challenges: Even research instruments can bias outcomes by focusing attention on certain elements or demographics.

Types of Market Research Studies

[47:46 - 53:36]

Wyatt summarizes four main types of media market research:

• Pilot Testing: Viewers watch a pilot episode, provide feedback.
• Series Maintenance: Focuses on keeping existing viewers engaged or attracting lapsed viewers.
• Brand/Talent Testing: Evaluates connection to a brand or on-screen talent.
• Ideation (Supergroup Sessions): Participants bring artifacts and help create new show ideas in long collaborative sessions.
  • “You end up with some of the most idiosyncratic and unusual but compelling ideas for shows. […] There’s a nugget of truth in each one that you could build from.” — Justin Wyatt [51:36]

Future Directions for Audience Studies

[53:36 - 59:21]

• Cross-Pollination Between Academia and Industry: Wyatt hopes for more partnerships to foster new research methods and deeper mutual understanding.
  • “The perspective that academics… is so much different than the perspective of the media executives… there’s benefits to both sides.” — Justin Wyatt [54:20]
• Institutional Curiosity: Wyatt wishes academics would be more eager to learn from direct practitioners.
  • “I kind of hoped more that folks would not seek my counsel… but be curious in the way that you're curious.” — Justin Wyatt [56:56]
• Materialism and Systemic Factors: Understanding artistic expression is incomplete without acknowledging its production and institutional context.

Personal Reflections & Current Projects

[58:37 - end]

• Media Market Research as a Career: Wyatt encourages students to consider market research as a creative and vital career path in media studies.
  • “I want people to know that this is a path they can follow if they're interested… It's a viable career path.” — Justin Wyatt [58:46]
• Ongoing Interests: Wyatt continues to study market research in the age of generative AI and synthetic data.
  • “Now some market research companies are interviewing 200 people and then creating synthetic data of the other 800… what are the protocols? What's the ethics?” — Justin Wyatt [60:11]
• Scholarship on Robert Altman: Wyatt is also active in film studies, especially on Robert Altman and New Hollywood, with new work exploring deep personal connections to specific films.
  • “By laying bare your personal investment in a film… it's a good frame for the analysis.” — Justin Wyatt [63:40]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “All questions become industry questions if you open your mind to it, and hopefully more folks will do so.” — Pete Kunze [57:57]
• “If you're a market researcher… the best way I can describe it is if you're moderating a focus group. You're the host who's invited all these fascinating people around you and they're comfortable, they're opening up to each other.” — Justin Wyatt [20:16]
• “The appeal of Facebook is it's drama and it's comedy—of my own friends.” — Anonymous participant as cited by Wyatt [35:36]
• “My hope is that there'd be more of an intersection.” — Justin Wyatt [54:21]

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 02:33 Wyatt's career trajectory and academic-industry crossover
• 10:50 Secrecy around market research in Hollywood
• 16:40 Lessons learned from Keeping up with the Kardashians research
• 23:13 Breaking media executives’ monolithic image of the viewer
• 26:30 Generational shifts in leisure and TV viewing habits
• 31:16 The distinction between “viewer” and “audience”
• 35:36 Rise of social media as entertainment
• 42:22 Market research methods and the media “left behind”
• 47:46 The four types of media market research studies
• 51:36 Ideation (supergroup) research as creativity engine
• 54:20 Call for more industry-academic collaboration
• 60:11 Challenges of AI and synthetic data in audience research

Conclusion

Wyatt and Kunze offer an accessible, critical, and deeply insightful exchange illuminating the otherwise hidden world of media market research. Wyatt's work exposes both the promise and peril of current methods, contextualizes them historically, and passionately advocates for more nuanced, inclusive, and collaborative study of how audiences are "created" in—and by—the rapidly shifting media environment.