Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — "Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol" with Katie Herzog (Simon and Schuster, 2025)
Host: Emily Dufton
Guest: Katie Herzog
Date: September 30, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and podcaster Katie Herzog, discussing her new book Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol. Unlike traditional recovery narratives, Herzog’s book and story center on her experience using naltrexone—specifically the Sinclair Method—a pharmacological approach for alcohol use disorder (AUD) that allows for continued drinking while gradually unlearning addictive behaviors. Katie shares her personal journey from secretive drinking to complete recovery, details the science behind naltrexone, and critiques current cultural and medical approaches to AUD. The conversation balances humor and candor, aiming to de-stigmatize medication-assisted treatment and expand the menu of recovery options.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Katie Herzog’s Backstory: From Problem Drinker to Author

• Personal Struggles: Katie describes decades of problematic drinking, secrecy, and shame:
  • “The alcohol was the longest relationship of my life...my brain space was really taken up by the sort of alcoholic chatter.” (03:21)
• Dual Life: Despite her career as a journalist and co-host of Blocked and Reported, Katie hid her drinking for years—even from loved ones:
  • “...the person who knew sort of the most about my consumption...was the woman down at the 7-11.” (03:21)
• Reluctance to Share: She describes the fear and discomfort in going public:
  • “I still feel a lot of shame about my behavior for years...my impulse to self-preserve is weaker than my impulse to tell the best story possible.” (05:25)

2. Discovering and Using Naltrexone (The Sinclair Method)

• History with Recovery Methods: Katie tried countless methods, from AA to “quit lit” and cleanses, but nothing stuck. (08:07)
• COVID as a Catalyst: Her drinking escalated during lockdown, prompting her to revisit the idea of naltrexone. (09:32)
• First Encounter: She learned about naltrexone via a 2015 article, but first had negative side effects and set it aside for years. (12:31)
• Second Attempt—Success: Armed with more information (thanks to online peer groups), Katie used a titrated, patient approach and succeeded:
  • “Taking it in this really targeted method...really targeted the behavior that I wanted to extinguish, which was drinking. So that worked really well for me.” (17:53)

3. The Science of Naltrexone & The Sinclair Method

• Mechanism: Naltrexone is an opioid antagonist, blocking the endorphins and associated pleasure from drinking, gradually lessening cravings.
• Sinclair Method: Requires continued drinking in conjunction with the medication—counterintuitive, but meant to “extinguish the behavior.”
  • “It does sound too good to be true. It sounds like an excuse to keep drinking.” (16:04)
• Practical Perspective: Many in-person and online support groups misstate the research; Katie sought to clarify the science in her book:
  • “I didn’t want to destroy my own reputation by getting the science wrong or the data wrong.” (17:53)

4. Challenges, Critiques, and the Status Quo

• Side Effects and Individual Variation: Naltrexone doesn’t work for everyone, and can have “dampening” psychological effects. Some benefit from daily dosing, others (like Katie) succeed with targeted use.
• Systemic Barriers: Lack of awareness among doctors (less than 1 hour of addiction training in med school), inertia in the healthcare system, and the dominance of abstinence-only approaches:
  • “It has just been, I don’t know, just people rely on it, court systems rely on it.” (43:24)

5. Naltrexone vs. AA and Recovery Culture

• Cultural Hegemony of AA: Most guidance still centers around 12-step programs; naltrexone (especially the Sinclair Method) disrupts this because it doesn’t require abstinence.
  • “The Sinclair method goes against the basic tenets of AA, which are, you know, once you have crossed this invisible line from normal drinker to alcoholic, there’s no going back.” (40:58)
• AA’s Official Position: No stance, though individual groups may be judgmental toward medication-assisted treatments.
• Addiction as Behavior: Katie and researchers argue addiction can often be “extinguished” through behavioral learning, challenging both moral and medical orthodoxies.

6. New Developments and Hopeful Changes

• Telemedicine & Accessibility: Telehealth has made naltrexone more accessible; new fast-acting naltrexone “mints” might further lower barriers. (36:06)
• Generics and Incentives: Lack of financial incentive to market generics has kept naltrexone obscure, but new patented formulations could help.
  • “If they make a billion dollars on this, I will be happy for them. I think [the mint] could be an absolute game changer.” (37:52)

7. Redefining Recovery: Life After Addiction

• "Recovered" vs. "In Recovery":
  • “I didn’t feel like I was in recovery. That was too active a verb. I felt like I had recovered, like my brain had reset to the time before the addiction took over.” (21:54)
• Normalcy and Peace: Sobriety feels natural, no longer a daily struggle:
  • “I literally do not think about alcohol. I think about it because I wrote a book about it and because I’m doing interviews about it, but it does not cross my mind on a daily basis.” (23:36)
• Critique of Over-Philosophizing Addiction: Argues not all addictions mask deeper traumas—sometimes it's just chemistry and behavior.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On secrecy and shame:
  “It was like coming out of the closet all over again. Although nobody gave a shit when I...found out I was gay...but this, I still feel a lot of shame about my behavior for years.”
  — Katie Herzog, 05:25

• On Recovery:
  “I didn’t feel like I was in recovery. That was too active a verb. I felt like I had recovered, like my brain had reset to the time before the addiction took over.”
  — 21:54

• On the role of AA:
  “If you go to an AA meeting and you say, ‘I’m working on it but I’m still drinking,’ you’re probably gonna get not just side eye. People are gonna come up to you after the meeting and tell you you’re fucking crazy.”
  — 40:14

• On the medical field’s failure:
  “In four years of med school, four years of residency, and then whatever specialized training...they would have had between like 0 and 1 hours of training on addiction.”
  — 30:20

• On needed change:
  “I just think that there should be...an array of options. When I was seeking treatment in the early days, I was told, ‘go get your ass to AA.’ That was the option.”
  — 48:56

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:05] Katie’s introduction & backstory
• [08:07] Attempts to quit and introduction to naltrexone
• [12:31] First, unsuccessful attempt using naltrexone
• [14:36] Committing to the Sinclair Method
• [17:53] Clinical nuances and the limits of Facebook group knowledge
• [21:54] “Recovered” vs. “In Recovery”
• [25:45] What is naltrexone, historically and pharmacologically?
• [31:50] Research process and key scientists
• [35:05] How to access naltrexone and emerging options (e.g., mints)
• [38:40] Why has naltrexone stayed obscure? Cultural and systematic reasons
• [40:14] Sinclair Method vs. AA doctrine
• [48:56] Katie’s “magic wand” for AUD treatment — emphasizing choices
• [51:06] Final reflections on addiction, recovery, and the need for story-driven, evidence-based narratives

Tone and Style

As in her book and podcasting, Katie Herzog balances raw honesty with irreverent humor to make the conversation both educational and approachable. Throughout, both Herzog and Dufton challenge preconceptions, share practical advice, and highlight the human side of addiction and recovery.

Further Information

• Where to Find Katie Herzog:
  Podcast: blockedandreported.org
  Book: Drink Your Way Sober (Simon & Schuster, 2025), widely available in affordable paperback
• Learn More About Naltrexone & Sinclair Method: sinclairmethod.org and advocacy groups like Claudia Christian’s C Three Foundation