Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Leading Toward Liberation: How to Build Cultures of Thriving in Higher Education
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Dr. Ann Marie Kanyo
Date: October 2, 2025

This episode centers on Dr. Ann Marie Kanyo’s book, Leading Toward Liberation: How to Build Cultures of Thriving in Higher Education. The discussion explores what it means to lead with liberation in mind within higher education systems. Dr. Kanyo shares insights from her personal journey as a first-generation college student, her academic career in psychology, and leadership experiences. The conversation delves into the Latin American origins of liberatory leadership, the need for system-level change, and practical strategies for cultivating thriving, inclusive academic environments.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Dr. Kanyo’s Personal Journey in Academia

• First-Generation College Experience
  • Dr. Kanyo shares her background as a first-generation college student, describing the challenges she faced in navigating the college application process and transitioning from a public high school to an elite college.
  • “I ended up going to Princeton University primarily because of the financial aid package that they gave me. ... I was doing a lot of figuring out on my own. ... First gen college students ... learn the gift of figuring things out.” (03:17)
• Inspiration for Academic Leadership
  • Mentorship and the desire for autonomy influenced her path into academia, striving for agency and intellectual stimulation.
  • “My father was a New York City bus driver ... This idea of having agency and autonomy in my work and I get to remain intellectually stimulated ... sounded so fabulous.” (approx. 06:00)

Purpose and Scope of the Book

• Liberatory Leadership Defined
  • The book addresses how leaders—regardless of formal title—can help create environments where all can thrive, not just the privileged or well-connected.
  • Inspired by Latin American Liberation Praxis, but “for everyone” regardless of background.
  • “At the core of all of liberation work, it's about creating systems in which everyone is more fully human ... collective liberation so we can live in societies in which everyone can flourish.” (07:18–09:56)
• Filling Gaps in Leadership Literature
  • Dr. Kanyo notes current leadership books often miss the realities for those who don’t have generational privilege in higher education or don’t fit the traditional mold of academic leaders.
  • She illustrates how existing advice can ignore the systemic bias or double standards leaders from marginalized groups encounter.
  • “Some of us can have all of those skills and yet we are still discounted or brushed aside ... I wanted to have a book that recognized that ... and allies need to recognize it ...” (10:15–13:10)

Systemic Nature of Obstacles in Higher Ed

• Misdiagnosing Why People Leave
  • Institutions often tell flattering or superficial stories about why talented individuals leave, rather than acknowledging systemic issues.
  • “When I would talk to people who actually did leave, they would often say, well, I wasn't looking to leave, but because of what was going on in my department ... I can have a better career, more fulfilling career someplace else.” (13:34)
• Individual vs. Systemic Lens
  • Dr. Kanyo describes the shift from internalizing blame for negative experiences to recognizing widespread, systemic cultural problems.
  • “I still didn't fully understand it as being a truly systemic issue until I left my department for my first leadership job elsewhere ... This is what's happening across higher ed.” (15:35–18:25)

Latin American Roots of Liberatory Leadership

• Key Historical Influences
  • Detailed story of the Universidad Centroamericana in El Salvador and its Jesuit leaders who embodied liberation theology.
  • Dr. Ignacio Martín-Baró, founder of liberation psychology, reframed university research as service to the marginalized, connecting individuals’ experiences to sociopolitical context.
  • The leaders faced severe repercussions—including assassination—for their commitment to truth and systemic change.
  • “What I find inspiring about their story is that they were so wedded to the truth and the integrity of what it meant to lead in this way that they did it anyway.” (18:55–27:22)

Practical Approaches for Liberatory Leadership

• Personal Mission and Self-Knowledge
  • Cultivating a personal, liberatory mission statement as a compass, not a GPS; clarifies what to say yes to and guards against burnout.
  • “Before I would say yes to additional asks, I would look at that personal mission statement ... and it just ... clarified things for me in a way that simplified my life.” (29:18–31:57)
• Self-Awareness about Power and Privilege
  • Leaders must interrogate both their marginalized and privileged identities to avoid perpetuating harm.
  • “If we don't recognize the privileges that we have had ... we can do some real damage ... That growth mindset is very much a part of liberatory practice.” (36:01)
• Listening as a Leadership Practice
  • Doing meaningful “listening tours” requires genuine, empathic listening and a willingness to be changed by what’s heard.
  • Monitoring emotional responses during these sessions is crucial to building trust and psychological safety.
  • “It means that we have to listen ... including if it's something we don't want to hear ... we act upon what we learn ... The solutions ... are within [the people experiencing the issues].” (40:20–45:38)

Expanding and Sustaining Liberatory Leadership

• Practicing, Not Perfecting
  • Emphasis on leadership as a continual practice of reflection, learning, and self-improvement—not a destination.
• Developing Others & Community Building
  • Encouragement to see and remove obstacles for others to take up leadership and ensuring the work is sustainable and collective.
• Safeguarding Energy and Wellbeing
  • Protecting one’s peace is essential for persisting in liberatory work and avoiding burnout.
• Knowing When to Let Go
  • Reflection prompts help leaders understand when it may be time to move on or redefine their role.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Individual vs. Systemic Change
  “Each time something would happen, it would be like a piece of the ... onion skin kind of falling away and getting closer and closer to the core of what is happening and how can we fix this or resist it or change it.” – Dr. Kanyo (18:25)

• On Creating Another Possible World
  “What I really like about Latin American liberation praxis is that there is always un otro mundo possible. ... There is always another way of doing things, another future that we can be working ... to move forward.” – Dr. Kanyo (47:13)

• On Dreamstorming and Hope
  “Jennifer Gomez ... talks a lot about dreamstorming in her own scholarship and work. ... We can dream about what that alternate reality is and then ... bring it into reality. It doesn’t have to stay as a dream.” – Dr. Kanyo (approx. 48:10)

• On Listening Tours’ Importance
  “When we go on a listening tour and someone shares something difficult ... we have to listen to people, believe what they're telling us ... We act upon what we learn.” – Dr. Kanyo (40:20-43:30)

• On Personal Mission Statements
  “Just because someone asks you to do something or just because you have a calling doesn't mean that you have to do this particular thing ... it requires that we know ourselves really well, that we protect our peace.” – Dr. Kanyo (33:24)

Detailed Structure and Timestamps

00:00–01:06 — Host introduction, podcast context (skip ad content)
01:07–03:03 — Meet Dr. Ann Marie Kanyo: personal background, motivation
03:04–07:02 — Childhood, family history, first-gen navigation in higher ed, path to professorship
07:03–09:56 — What the book is about; the concept of liberatory leadership
09:57–13:10 — Gaps in the leadership literature, unique barriers for marginalized leaders
13:11–15:34 — Systemic issues in higher education, why individuals leave the academy
15:35–18:24 — Individual experience vs. system-level realities, learning about oppression in higher ed
18:25–27:22 — History and examples: El Salvador, liberation theology/psychology, university as service
27:23–29:17 — Structure of the book: practice, reflection, and why self-mission matters
29:18–31:57 — The importance and origin of personal mission statements
32:43–36:01 — Self-inventory, privilege, growth mindset; avoiding burnout and saviorism
36:02–40:19 — Reflection prompts, leadership beyond titles, accountability, dangers of silence
40:20–45:37 — The listening tour: authentic engagement, systems-thinking, monitoring self
45:38–47:13 — Overview of remaining chapters (accompaniment, courage, developing others, safeguarding peace, next steps, hope)
47:14–49:17 — Hope for higher education; “another possible world”; dreamstorming
49:18–50:10 — Closing: Dr. Kanyo’s hope for listeners—curiosity, connection, dream-driven action

Final Thoughts

Dr. Kanyo’s Closing Message:
“I hope that listeners have a sense of curiosity about how liberation can further their own dreams or maybe even uncover dreams that they have long since given up on ... See who are the people who share this way of thinking, who are my people, and how can we get together and take some action, even on a small scale?” (49:22)

This episode offers both an intellectual and practical roadmap for those seeking to make higher education more just, inclusive, and vibrant through liberatory leadership. Whether you are formally titled or a leader in action, Dr. Kanyo emphasizes the ongoing, self-reflective, and community-minded nature of the work ahead.