Podcast Summary: New Books Network
Episode: Lesley Chamberlain, "The Mozhaisk Road" (Austin Macauley, 2025)
Date: January 25, 2026
Host: Dr. Charles Petillo
Guest: Lesley Chamberlain
Episode Overview
In this episode, Dr. Charles Petillo interviews Lesley Chamberlain about her new novel, The Mozhaisk Road. Chamberlain, a novelist, historian, and essayist renowned for her studies of Russian culture, discusses the motivations, themes, and historical underpinnings of her literary exploration of Soviet and post-Soviet Russia. The conversation delves into moral and philosophical questions, the structure and symbolism of her novel, and its resonance with both Soviet history and the present-day Russian context.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Origins and Inspiration for The Mozhaisk Road
- Chamberlain’s Personal Journey: Chamberlain recounts her early experiences in Russia as a young Reuters correspondent, drawing on seven years of academic immersion in Russian literature and philosophy. Her prolonged engagement with the complexities of the Soviet Union became the slow-burning inspiration for her novel.
"It's taken me a very long time, I would say about 40 years... It's a very, very difficult country to understand..." (02:36, C) - Desire for Understanding: The book seeks to humanize not just Western observers but also Russian dissidents and members of the Soviet “administrative class” (the “nomclatz”, her term for apparatchiks), reflecting her wish to evoke empathy for all caught in the machinery of history.
Character Types and Moral Complexity
- Three Principal Groups:
- Western observers (some based on Chamberlain’s own experience)
- Russian dissidents (most notably Alexander Razumovsky, inspired by Andrei Sakharov)
- The “nomclatz” (apparatchiks), middle-class administrators running the Soviet system
- Sympathetic Portrayal: Influenced by Joseph Conrad, Chamberlain strives to depict not only heroes and victims but also compromised individuals forced to make painful, morally ambiguous choices: "I was very interested in these Soviet characters who had chosen to make that compromise." (06:24, C)
The "Russian Heart of Darkness" (Subtitle)
- Conrad’s Influence: The subtitle is Chamberlain’s own, meant as a direct nod to Conrad’s Heart of Darkness and its themes of moral struggle.
"Some darkness in the Russian tradition that just seems impossible to root out..." (09:48, C) - Moral Strength and Weakness: She links this to the novel’s central concern with how individuals—dissidents and administrators alike—navigate the pressures of a system that encourages both courage and cynicism.
Fact, Fiction, and Russian Cultural Allusion
- Invented but Rooted: While only loosely based on real figures, Chamberlain’s characters are woven from the cultural and philosophical threads of Russian history.
- Names such as Marlinsky, Gerasimov, and Razumovsky are selected as homage to iconic Russian literary and artistic figures (16:27, C).
- Self-Reflection: The character Gels Maybe is a “possible way of looking” at Soviet life—both an autobiographical lens and a device purposefully detached from certainty.
The "Second Russian Revolution" and Themes of Change
- Rumor and Expectation: Set in the late 1970s, the novel amplifies the era’s pervasive sense of impending upheaval, inspired partly by journalistic rumors and the wider Soviet malaise.
"There was a rumor that everything was going to change, that the system was going to change. And I think that was very plausible..." (18:41, C) - Banal Evil: Drawing on Hannah Arendt, Chamberlain discusses everyday moral compromise among the nomklatz and how systemic pressure produces "banal evil" (22:04, C).
Intellectual Culture, “Kitchen Speech,” and Artistic Expression
- Kitchen Speech: Chamberlain reflects on Russian traditions of “obsessively serious” philosophical conversation, referencing the punning 19th-century quote:
"You want to go off and have supper, but we haven't yet solved the question of God." (26:00, C) - Poetry, Painting, and Resistance: Cultural creativity—poetry and symbolic art—serves as both expression and subversion. She describes the real-life open-air dissident art show that was violently suppressed (29:29, C).
The Apparatchik–Intelligentsia Divide
- Social Cleavages: The book dramatizes the deep separation and mutual misunderstanding between the Soviet bureaucratic elite and the intelligentsia/dissident culture, particularly through failed overtures to characters like Marlinsky (34:00, C; 38:00, C).
Symbols and Nostalgia
- Symbolism of Place: The villa inherited by Korsakov and his wife symbolizes Russia’s complex relationship with European values—admired, imitated, but often hollow in application (37:00, C).
- Ambivalent Nostalgia: Chamberlain evokes a sense of lost ideals, not to sentimentalize the Soviet system, but to highlight the tragedy of its original moral ambition becoming “travestied, comic, horrific”—yet occasionally still visible in fleeting cultural moments (40:50, C).
Relevance to Present-Day Russia
- Historical Repetition: Although not intended as direct political commentary, the novel's themes strongly resonate with listeners familiar with Putin’s Russia: "Many of the observations ... reflect directly on what's happening now in Putin's Russia and what's been happening, indeed, for the last 20 years." (52:00, C)
- Cycles of Cultural Repression and Superiority Politics: Chamberlain notes persistent motifs in Russian history—a struggle for Western parity, a tendency to posture as “culturally supreme” while stifling actual creativity—evident both before and after the Soviet collapse.
Final Takeaway
- Sympathy for All Russians: Chamberlain hopes readers gain a sense of profound empathy for Russians of all backgrounds, trapped between history, political repression, and powerful cultural legacy: "I want to reiterate my sympathy with all classes of Russians, even those who are somehow caught up in the bad politics. Because as I see it ... it's quite difficult to escape." (57:00, C)
- She also calls for a Russia where its “extraordinary cultural power” can flourish freely, unimpeded by politics or fear.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "It's taken me a very long time...about 40 years...It's a very, very difficult country to understand." – Lesley Chamberlain (03:00)
- "My sympathy for everyone, every kind of Russian involved in this difficulty of getting out of that Russian past..." – Lesley Chamberlain (56:09)
- "Some darkness in the Russian tradition that just seems impossible to root out." – Lesley Chamberlain on ‘Russian Heart of Darkness’ (09:48)
- "You want to go off and have supper, but we haven't yet solved the question of God." – Visarion Belinsky quoted by Chamberlain (26:00)
- "It's that evil which is totally at home and caught up in everyday practices such that we don't notice it, such that it seems sort of okay." – Lesley Chamberlain, on Arendt’s ‘banal evil’ (24:00)
- “Russia is this huge cultural power, this huge source of emotional wealth and cultural wealth and intellectual uniqueness, really...and it needs a chance to flourish, and it keeps being flattened.” – Lesley Chamberlain (57:00)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:45 – Why Chamberlain wrote The Mozhaisk Road
- 04:00 – Character sketches: Dissidents, Westerners, Nomclatz
- 09:44 – The subtitle and the theme of the ‘Russian Heart of Darkness’
- 12:44 – Real people vs. invented characters, and Russian naming traditions
- 18:26 – The “Second Russian Revolution” and what change might mean
- 21:30 – Banality of evil and the fate of the apparatchik class
- 25:25 – "Kitchen speech,” culture of dissident conversation and poetry
- 29:29 – Dissident art, the bulldozer exhibition
- 33:57 – Apparatchik vs. intelligentsia values
- 36:53 – Symbolism of the Korsakov country villa
- 40:56 – Nostalgia, bookshops, and the moral legacy of Russian cultural life
- 51:59 – Parallels between Soviet and Putin’s Russia
- 56:09 – Chamberlain’s hoped-for takeaway: sympathy for Russian culture and people
Tone and Language
Chamberlain’s voice throughout is reflective, generous, erudite, and empathetic—infused with her deep love for Russian culture and her concern for the “strangeness” and tragedy of its historical path. Petillo’s questions are thoughtful and respectful, providing a platform for Chamberlain's nuanced analysis.
For Listeners
This episode provides a rich exploration of recent Russian history, literature, and philosophy, and the moral dilemmas endured by those who live under oppressive systems. Chamberlain’s insights offer both literary pleasure for fans of Russian fiction and political food for thought for anyone reflecting on the cycles of hope, disappointment, and resilience in Russia’s modern history.