Podcast Summary: Liang Qichao, "Thoughts from the Ice-Drinker's Studio: Essays on China and the World" (Penguin Classics, 2023)

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Sarah Bramao Ramos
Guest: Peter Zarrow (Translator, Historian of Modern China)
Release Date: December 13, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the first major English volume of Liang Qichao’s essays, newly translated by Peter Zarrow. Liang Qichao, a towering figure in 20th-century Chinese intellectual life, grappled with the meaning of citizenship, democracy, reform, and China’s place in the modern world—against a backdrop of immense social and political upheaval. Zarrow’s selection, translation, and commentary create new opportunities for Anglophone readers to engage with Liang’s complex, evolving thought.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Zarrow's Path to Liang Qichao and Modern Chinese Intellectual History

• Early Academic Journey

  • Zarrow describes coming of age during the Vietnam War, his youthful interest in Buddhism, Daoism, and “Oriental thought,” and his dabbling in Maoism and radical politics.
  • He credits inspiring teachers, early focus on radicalism, and eventual study of anarchists in grad school for shaping his intellectual history approach.
  • Quote:

    “I was a kind of high school Maoist and carried that into college to some extent... then took both literature and history courses in Chinese.” [03:01]

• Encounter with Liang Qichao

  • Zarrow first met Liang through short translated snippets and secondary sources—there was no comprehensive English translation of Liang’s essays at the time.
  • Early on, Zarrow was more persuaded by revolutionaries but came to recognize Liang’s “deeply radical” thinking, especially his criticism of autocracy and support for republicanism.
  • He coined “Confucian radicalism” to describe Liang’s blend of tradition and revolutionary ideas.

2. The Translation Project: Goals and Challenges

• Impetus for Translation

  • The project began when Penguin approached Zarrow to contribute to the Penguin Classics series. The goal: make Liang’s fuller arguments accessible in English, not just snippets.
  • Quote:

    “Penguin Press came to me and asked... I thought it would be really worthwhile to, by translating complete essays, give readers... a better chance of seeing how his mind works.” [09:23]

• Handling Liang’s References & Rhetorical Style

  • Liang’s style is “circuitous”—he often circles back to ideas, poses rhetorical questions, and quotes a wide range of sources, especially Neo-Confucian classics and Western thinkers.
  • Zarrow addressed Liang’s dense references with strategic footnoting, providing context present-day readers would lack.
  • Challenge: balancing clarity for modern readers with faithfulness to the original.

• Essay Selection Criteria

  • Out of Liang’s extensive oeuvre (over 30 volumes!), Zarrow focused on essays related to political and social thought with broad, global relevance: nationalism, citizenship, constitutionalism, imperialism, and more.
  • What didn’t make the cut: Scholarly works focused on historical detail, or essays requiring “intense” footnoting about Western philosophers. Zarrow prioritized pieces showing Liang’s original thinking.

3. Liang Qichao: Biography and Evolution as a Thinker

• Background

  • Born in 1873, from a modest family, dazzlingly precocious.
  • Became a disciple of Kang Youwei, exposed to reformist and global ideas early, profoundly shaped by encounters with missionaries and revolutionary politics.

• Intellectual Development: Four Key Phases

  • Early Radical Reformer (1896–1898):

    • Focused on institutional reform—especially education, the exam system, and the creation of public schools for both genders.
    • Introduced social Darwinism (from Yan Fu’s translations) and argued for the need of a unified, educated population to modernize China.
      • Quote:

        “He’s a leading publicist... of Social Darwinism already in the late 1890s.” [23:26]

  • Exile in Japan (1899–1903):

    • After the failed Hundred Days’ Reform, Liang fled to Japan—an extremely productive period.
    • Engaged with Western political thought, introduced the concept of the “new citizen” (xinmin), and sharpened his critique of despotism and autocracy.
      • Quote:

        “Everything from the third century BCE to the present... he often speaks about as a kind of wrong path.” [29:19]

    • Saw “survival of the fittest” in national and racial terms—a blend of admiration for the West with a sense of existential threat from imperialism.

  • Cultural Reform and Conservative Turn (1904–1911):

    • Characterized as a “conservative” turn, but Zarrow argues the reality is nuanced—Liang shifted emphasis rather than reversing core beliefs.
    • Critiqued young revolutionaries for being reckless; called for a period of “top-down” enlightenment.
      • Quote:

        “He’s mixed. He actually says, these youngsters... are the hope of China, but they’ve gotten carried away and they’re sort of drunk on Western ideas.” [40:15]

  • Post-1911 and May Fourth Era (1912–1929):

    • As China’s intellectual climate grew more radical, Liang’s eclectic gradualism and respect for tradition seemed passé to many, though he retained influence as a respected elder and historical researcher.
    • Key themes: self-awakening of the Chinese people, education, the endurance of tradition, and caution about blind adoption of Western ways.

4. Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On Liang’s “conservatism”:

  • “It’s not 180 degrees change from what he thought before... it’s much more nuanced and gradual than that.” (Peter Zarrow, 42:00)

• On selecting essays:

  • “I’m interested in where you can see more of his original thinking... essays that sprang from his radical reformist goals.” (13:52)

• On Liang’s relevance:

  • “If you want to understand today’s China, you should have an appreciation of what Liang Qichao is doing and his role in creating it...” (56:03)

5. Thematic Highlights From Specific Essays

• On Buddhism and Social Order:
  • Liang’s Buddhist influences are deeper than many realize; he advocates Buddhism as an instrument of national strengthening, but also as a universal moral force (36:33).
• On Imperialism and Race:
  • Liang viewed imperialism as an existential, even racial threat; his analysis mingled admiration for Western modernity with anxiety about “survival of the fittest” (33:43).
• On Citizenship and Nationhood:
  • Central to Liang’s thought is the creation of citizens who actively identify with and participate in the life of the nation. Education is repeatedly stressed as the key tool (29:19, 51:56).
• On Women’s Rights and Social Change:
  • Later essays urge patience and steady reform (“step by step”), a stance both practical and increasingly seen as conservative by younger generations (50:19).

6. Relevance to Modern China and Beyond

• Zarrow underscores how Liang’s foundational role in molding modern Chinese thought persists today, especially regarding anti-imperialism, critiques of despotism, and debates about balancing state power, tradition, and modernity (56:03).
• Liang stands out, even on recent lists by contemporary Chinese scholars, as one of the few Chinese thinkers who shaped the global “structure of knowledge” (57:50).
• Liang’s questions about self-government, legitimacy, and the use of tradition remain freshly relevant.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Zarrow’s Early Intellectual Journey: [02:50–05:27]
• First Introduction to Liang Qichao: [06:02–08:46]
• Origins and Goals of the Penguin Translation: [09:23–10:58]
• Challenges of Translating Liang’s Quotations: [12:01–13:29]
• Essay Selection Process: [13:52–17:30]
• Liang’s Early Biography and Reformist Essays: [19:25–23:26]
• Exile, New Citizen Concept, and Imperialism: [29:19–35:30]
• Buddhism and Social Order: [36:33–39:03]
• Cultural Reform and Conservative Critique: [40:15–43:41]
• May Fourth Era and Perceptions of Liang: [44:41–49:24]
• Relevance Today and Final Reflections: [56:03–59:22]
• Zarrow’s Current and Future Work: [60:32–63:22]

Conclusion: Why Read Liang Qichao Now?

Liang’s work, by Zarrow’s account, animates enduring debates: What makes government legitimate? How do states interact and modernize? How can traditions be leveraged for progress without being stifling? Liang’s complex, sometimes contradictory wrestling with these topics—his “circuitous” rhetorical style, his embrace of eclectic sources, his willingness to rethink and revise—offer a model for navigating confusion and change in any society.

“He’s dealing with critical issues we face today... And I’m not saying he has the answers, but I strongly suspect that we can learn a lot from watching how he wrestled with these questions.”
—Peter Zarrow [57:50]

For further exploration:

• Thoughts from the Ice-Drinker's Studio: Essays on China and the World (Penguin Classics, 2023; translated/introduced by Peter Zarrow)
• Look out for Zarrow’s forthcoming work on the history of Beijing’s Forbidden City as a museum since 1900.