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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the New Books Network. This is the Nordic Asia Podcast.
- [00:14]
B
Welcome to the Nordic Asia Podcast, a collaboration sharing expertise on Asia across the Nordic region. My name is Julie Yuwen Chen, professor of Chinese Studies at University of Helsinki, Finland. Today we have two distinguished experts joining us. Dr. Zhu and Dr. Wa Yuni from the University of Malaya, the best university in Malaysia, to talk about the localization of Islamic art in Malaysia. So welcome Dr. Zhu and Dr. Wa Yuni. I have to apologize, in fact, their names are not that short. You can read their full names and with their webpages on the birth of this podcast. So that's the Zou. He's an expert on Islamic art and I know that he's also a real artist and he has his own creation. Together with his colleague Dr. W.A. yumi. They have been working a lot on Islamic art as well as the philosophy and the aesthetics behind the art. So I think they are really the right experts to share with our listeners about Malaysian art, Islamic art. May I kindly ask you to introduce yourself to our listeners? Can I start with Hwayuni? Ladies first.
- [01:24]
A
Thank you. Prof. Julie. It's an honor for inviting me to this podcast. My name is Wahyuni. I'm the coordinator of Visual art program at University Malaya. I'm also a senior lecturer and researcher in the field of visual culture, specifically in Malay aesthetic which particularly interested in the intersection between arts biomechanic and Malay culture tradition. So currently my research explores how the moving body is a dynamic motion through practice like Malay exercise. And also the the silat, the martial art, traditional dance and some of performance is represented in visual art and how this embodied the apparition carry culture historical and symbolic meaning. I'm from Faculty of Creative Art in Unison Malaya which basically in the program of visual art which we offer a postgraduate study and we have a program that offer students to have a critical and research driven and intrinsic approach to study art and visual culture. So I'm very proud to be a part of the team member of Faculty of Creative Arts along with us with also a dedicated team with the scholar in the program, Dr. Wang Jiabao, Associate Professor Dr. Roslina, Dr. Tanzi Hao, Dr. Gregory, Dr. Sharon, and also here is Dr. Zoum. We are diverse in the expertise of Islamic and Southeast Asian art to the contemporary visual culture. This is a very good opportunity to share our knowledge to others.
- [02:49]
B
Your colleague Dr. Zhu is here with us and he's an accomplished artist as well as a researcher. So welcome Dr. Zhu.
- [02:56]
C
Hello. Thank you. Thank you professor for the kind introduction. Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in. I'm Dr. Zul Afiq Zakaria by name. I'm an artist, a designer, researcher and academician. At heart I'm someone who spends a lot of time thinking about beauty, about meaning, philosophical, where art fits in the world where we live in today. So I like say that I live in an intersection of tradition, of experimentation, where philosophy meets pains, where silence often reveal more than noises. Those are the philosophical thoughts usually that in my mind. Well, as professor mentioned just now, to say that I'm accomplished artist basically I'm not just an artist, also a designer, a researcher, an academician. Basically I've been in this experience for, I could say more, almost more than a decade of experience in the field of art and designs. Well, I work both in academia and creative industry which I moving between galleries, classroom design studios and lecture hall. I'm also actively involved in the Malaysian art scenes and design communities where I found that my passion both for practice and academic inquiries and that feels something deeper and constant exploration of aesthetic innovation. So whether I'm curating an exhibition, working on canvas or guiding postgraduate student through philosophical research. So it's just the goal remained the same to ask better questions about arts than philosophical arts. My background with graphic design since I'm a degree in Lungkot Wing University and also in Curtin University from Australia and eventually I continue my master's in arts. This is where I shift between my graphic design background into the fine arts where I found my inner fine arts during my master's studies. And I also over time become more interested in why we create, you know, why we paint and all that. So it started me to study more in philosophical and arts where I found the arts and philosophical and spirituality.
- [04:51]
B
We directly jump into the topic of today's discussion and is Islamic art. But we know that the Islamic arts in Malaysia perhaps has its own local uniqueness than the Islamic art elsewhere in the world. So I wonder if I can start with perhaps Dr. W.A. yuni, could you give us some basic introductions in five minutes about Islamic art and the localization?
- [05:15]
A
Malay Islamic art is quite different with the Middle Eastern Islamic arts but the essence, the genes is the same because it's a manifesto of the God, manifesto of the spiritual worldview rooted in tauhi, which if we actually know is the oneness of God, meaning that everything in the arts is in the unity is connected and reflect the perspection of Allah. The difference is Islamic and the Middle East Islamic we can see per se in the first place, you can see the geographic itself Is a different way for the Malay Islamic is more on the primarily we can say in Malaysia, Indonesia Brune Sultans India they have a reflection of Islamic belief India India outwards as same as in Malaysia Islamic belief in indigenous Malay culture which is they they more seeing in the what India environment. They they. They interpret all the nature in the outward in philosophy of Malay they are believe in three value that's very important to be nurtured and to be sustained. These the the value of relationship are with Allah with the God and the value relationship with nature and the value relationship with the humans. All these three values are interpreted in the arts to always remain as the perfection of God and intercation with the nature. Islam come to Malay world after the 13th century and then before this is her influence with the Buddhism Hinduism. So after this transition it's become part of the Malay culture to believe these religions and is also interpreted in the art basically is the new way to understand the universes rational and the spiritual framework as well to see the reflection of God antenna and perfect presence because it's really related with the religion and belief. So it can see in certain of the outwards. Okay, Based on the. I remember a scholar of Muhammad Alis Muhammad in explain all the outward echo based on the Qurans particularly in Surah Al Nas which remind us the God present in beyond our senses and cannot be fully captured. So this is what how they localized it. We can see basically in the architecture the traditional mosque like in Masjid Kampung Lao and they have a local very local symbol of architecture in the mosque because basically we can see the different shape between Malay Islamic arts and Middle Eastern. So Middle Eastern basically most we all know as a geometric pattern arabesque and a calligraphy In Malay Islamic arts they intend cooperate with the locomotive. It's not that they don't have the calligraphy. They have the calligraphy, they have a geometry but they localize in the traditional pattern that influence with the symbolism with the nature. That's based on the value that I mentioned just now. The value of the relationship between the nature with the God and the human.
- [08:20]
B
Well, building on what you just elaborated perhaps now I can turn to Dr. Zhu about the connections of culture and philosophy and aesthetics in the Islamic arts. I recall very vividly a few months ago when I listened to Dr. Zu's presentations. He shows some of the artworks that he got involved. They are all very abstract and that kind of strikes me I asked you the question why is it all abstract?
- [08:46]
C
Thank you, Professor. It's a very good question. Basically the connection between culture, philosophy and aesthetics. So if you look at the connection between culture, philosophy and aesthetic. At the core, culture provide context that shared practices, values and symbol of groups. It shapes how we see, make and interpret art. While in philosophy offers the frameworks. The theory is about meaning, the beauty, the ethics and existence. So it questions what is art, what is beauty and why does it matter? While aesthetic is the bridge, it's the philosophical inquiry into beauty, taste and artistic experience. So in essence, we could say that culture produce arts, philosophy interprets it and aesthetics evaluate it. For example, let's look at the Western tradition. Plato distrusted art as imitation. Where Aristotle prizes its emotional clarity. In East Asian aesthetic example, like Zen, Taoist and such, beauty is linked with emptiness, asymmetry and impermanence. While in African traditions, aesthetic is often patterns are relational. Where beauty exists through functions, ritual and community. So in this case, how Islam view aesthetics. Islamic aesthetics begins not with the human eye, but with tawhid. The meaning that the oneness of God. So this, this is what I've been throughout my research where I found that the pure Islamic aesthetic throughout the research is not just beginning from the human eye. Not from just the thinking, but also the field. From the heart itself. And also the understanding of the tawhid itself, which is the oneness of God. All beauty is reflection of the divine. So that is the main point of the tawhid itself. So the core ideas is the beauty is a sign of God. There's verses in the Quran that describe God as Jamil, which means beautiful. And Muhib Al Jamal, which means lovers of beauty. So beauty is not autonomous. It's a manifestation of divine order and balance. So this form follows ethics, which aesthetic expression must align with. We call it as Adap, which means a proper conduct and Sharia. And art is not art for art's sake. So it's different from how Westerners look arts and how we as Islamic lessons as look at how art. So art is not just for art's sake, but art as we call it as ibadah, which means worship or remembrance, which means zikir. And then it goes to the iconism in the Islamic philosophical arts is to avoid idolatry. Shrik to idolizing is not in the way of how Islamic Siena is Figuration is limited, especially in religious context. So this restrict that led to the flourishing of a non representational forms. For examples like geometry that reflecting divine order. Calligraphy, the Quranic text as a sacred image. And arabesque, the infinite pattern that represent the infinite of God. So this goes to the unity in multiplicity, where Islamic art often display repetition with variation, where it's expressing unity within diversity. That echoing the philosophical idea of Tawhid itself. So that is the basic core of the philosophical of Islamic art. So the assumption that we might be holding are we assuming that Islamic aesthetic is a modalistic? In fact it varies across the Persian, Ottoman, Mughal, even Malay itself and Maghribi context. So people often assume that beauty in Islam is always a decorative or abstract. So what about the Sufi poetry, the recitations or the architecture as a spiritual place, as a spiritual space? This actually push away all these assumptions about the Islamic art itself. There are the counterpoints that we might to consider. Some argue that Islamic aesthetic overlay restricts personal expression. That's why it goes towards abstractions. That's why it goes towards arabesques and ornamentations. From my research this is a little bit biased, which from the Western understanding, which conflating the freedom of artistic value. So others might say that beauty in modern Islamic art has become detached from ethics that reduce the visual branding or nostalgic ornamentations. We could look at another another alternative perspective. For example, we could look into the phenomenological questions on how does Islamic art feel or transforms the perceived spirituality. And also in post colonial, how has Islamic aesthetic has been distorted, erased or co opted in modern global art markets? And maybe decolonial Islamic aesthetic offers a critique of capitalist core modifications of beauty. This is where we look at the further question that we might question about the Islamic art itself and the philosophical. Are we exploring this from the art making perspective or from the theoretical and research perspective? And what is Islamic traditions or regions that we are focusing on? Is it in Malay, Nusantara, the Maghrib or the Ottoman? What are the tensions that we are most interested in? Traditions versus modernity, Spirituality versus aesthetic or globalization versus local sacred form?
- [14:13]
B
Following Afron Huang Yu just say, I'm not so sure if this is contradictory, but there is this tradition and this modernization and modernity in it. Dr. W.A. yuni at the beginning when she introduced her, she said that she's using technology to do art. So is this contradictory? Can technology play a role in preserving Malay art? Dr. Wi.
- [14:33]
A
Okay, thank you. Prof. It's very, very good question. Okay. Actually how is come to the technology as a preservation? Okay. Basically is start from my background as a industrial designer. Malay culture, they have a exercise, they call it Naman Malayua. It's Malay Asian exercise. Naman Malayu. Normally in Chinese they have the exercise that we call it Qigong and Tai Chi and Indian exercise yoga. Very few people know about this movement on Snamama Malayutva. I see this master of Snamamanayutua talking about this exercise really, really connected with Malay culture, Malay aesthetic. But it's really unseen the aesthetic in the movement. So it's also talking about how it reflects on the Malay belief toward Islamic religion. Professor Associate Professor Hasno Jama said one of the pioneer in media new media technology in Malaysia. So he said to experience the. The exercise. Yeah, actually the exercise is talking about the calmness well being. And it's because the. The exercise is talking about the alignment the heart and mind, the intellect that surrender and returning to Allah. When he explained to me it's one of the aesthetic experience, he stated that this is the aesthetic experience. I said how I'm going to see this unseen aesthetic through the movement. So how I'm going to capture the movement to preserve it for the generation in the future. I found out there's a technology of motion capture. So I use that motion capture to capture the movement to see the unseen aesthetic. And also not only observe and also participate in that community to understand the movement to see what the movement of the exercise is talking about all the Malay culture. So from the beginning as Nama Malay Tuare I found out that there's a lot of very beautiful language of Malay they use in that movement. Really the very classic one example like Nagatundo okay there a word of very very classic word. So it's basically based on the Malay culture live how. How the ancients Malay live their life. Meaning they started the exercise is from lower body which basically reflect on how they taking their bath. They started to pour the water from the lower body and started from the middle of body and then to the upper body. When I started to understand the essence of the exercise after the 76 months then the master told me that there's an aesthetic actually in the movement that I see prediction from what he practiced. But however, when I use the motion capture to capture I see there's a lot of symbolism that occur in the technology. You see a lot of symbolism. I found out a lot that the all the symbolism really related with the Malay craftsmanship. Especially about the curse. And then the symbol of elephants that represent the power that represent how we become brave. And then the symbol of chicken. The chicken, we call it Ayam. There's a lot of Ayam. The chicken is a symbol of warrior. So there's a lot of symbol that we can see in that movement. So what I can see that technology is really play a very important, important tool to preserve the culture actually as it's not only to see the culture, they also see the aesthetic as well based on that. When I find out there's a digital of the visual in that movement is related to what Professor Hasno Jama Saeedan in his writing talking about the potential of light. The potential offline is talking about the potential how this line is connected, how we connotation and denotation the line meaning based on the culture context and how it can help the community. So based on my research I can see the line itself have a potential to become part of the mindfulness tool to the community. So that's why I'm seeing the clinical psychology to validate the data and also see the visual espntology professor Dr. Baharu did to validate all the visual that I'm taking from my cinemato. They found out there's a potential that need to be a further research in the future. However, what I see in the technology, how does this help? There's a lot of thing that we can do nowadays we all in a digital platform, all the technology, all the AI, everything. Now is the time that we can use the advantage to preserve the technology. Especially one of my friends currently doing the research on Malay. Malay, what you call it?
- [19:46]
C
Malay Fishermanship.
- [19:47]
A
Yeah, the sheep. The fishermanship.
- [19:49]
C
Okay.
- [19:50]
A
So what my friends done is digital archiving through the 3D scanning using the 3D modeling to preserve the craftsmanship. Because nowadays we don't have any men that are really good in that Crimean sheets like previously they already gone. All the generation already gone. So not all the young generation want to learn about it. They are more to the modern design. So this is how the technology help us to do some of the high resolution photography 3D scanning, you know. So this is how we preserve the culture.
- [20:25]
B
Thank you Dr. Wyuni and Dr. Zhu for your insights. Today we have learned a lot from you about the Islamic art in Malaysia. You are listening to me, Julie Iwen Chen at the University of Helsinki, Finland with Dr. Wani and Dr. Zhu from the Faculty of Creative Arts, University of Malaya.
- [20:46]
C
You have been listening to the Nordic Asia podcast, Sam.