← New Books Network
New Books Network
Margaretha Geertsema-Sligh, "Journalism and Gender: Global Perspectives" (Routledge, 2025)
00:51:20
Loading summary
Transcript115 lines
- [00:00]
Margarita Gercema Sly
With Venmo Stash. A toggle on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms Exclusion apply. Match $100 cash back per month. See terms of Venmo Me StashTerms. A massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, especially these days. Eight different settings, adjustable intensity. Plus it's heated and it just feels so good.
- [00:28]
Yes, a massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, but when it can come with a car.
- [00:35]
Suddenly it seems quite practical. The Volkswagen Tiguan, packed with premium features like available massaging front seats, it only feels extravagant.
- [00:46]
In the time it takes us to say we're using Folger's instant coffee, seamlessly blended with water and ice. A splash of whatever kind of milk is your thing. And gotta get that caramel drizzle. All to make a toasty, roasty caramel iced coffee. You could be enjoying it, every damn sip of it. Damn right, it's Folgers Instant.
- [01:17]
Podcast Host Intro/Ad Reader
Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [01:22]
Nina Bo Wagner
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the New Books Network. I'm Nina Bo Wagner and I'm joined by Margarita Gercema Sly, who is the author of Journalism and Global Perspectives, which was published in August 2025 by Routledge. Thank you so much for joining me, Margarita.
- [01:40]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Thanks, Nina. I'm happy to be here.
- [01:42]
Nina Bo Wagner
Amazing. So would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself and your work and this book?
- [01:49]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Sure. Yes. So, as you said, I'm Margarita Girtham Aslai. I am a professor of journalism in the College of Communication at Butler University in Indianapolis, in Indiana. And my new book, Journalism and Gender Global Perspectives, just came out a couple of months ago. So this is a textbook. It is aimed at undergraduate students and. And it is really an introduction to the issue of journalism and gender. But it is somewhat unique in that it has a global perspective. Typically, these kinds of books do not have a global perspective. They would maybe focus on the United States or the United Kingdom, Europe or Australia, Canada maybe. But I really wanted to use this opportunity to write a very inclusive book. There are 14 chapters and. Yeah, I look forward to discussing it with you.
- [02:50]
Nina Bo Wagner
Thank you. Yeah, it's a really great introduction. It seems like the book kind of presumes that the students who engage with this are coming into contact with gender and journalism for the first time. Am I correct?
- [03:05]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes. Yes, that is correct. I think there are some Journalism programs that have a course in journalism and gender, but not many. Sometimes it would be called something like Race, class and media, or Race, class and gender in the media or something like that. Yeah. So I did kind of want to give them an introduction. And then as we progress in the book, we go deeper into the issues, for sure.
- [03:34]
Nina Bo Wagner
And you talk about this global outlook, which is definitely very special and also really kind of present throughout the whole book. Methodologically, what does that look like you go into, especially in the first chapter?
- [03:51]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah, so as I said, most of these books don't really have that perspective. So.
- [04:00]
I did some research and I tried to find out how many countries there are in the world. And there are different ways to measure that, but I decided to go with the United nations definitions. And they currently have 193 countries listed. And so out of those 193, I was able to include research from 92 countries. So that is 48% of the countries listed by the United Nations. You know, and really what I did is I made a very big effort to find information published in English, which is another issue, from different countries.
- [04:42]
And that is how I was then able to incorporate information from so many different countries.
- [04:49]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah. And I think what's especially unique is this focus on the global south.
- [04:55]
Especially from your position at a US University. That was really interesting and something I really enjoyed about the book. And that kind of leads me into the next framework that you set out, which is the gender aspect. And you talk about having a feminist framework and how it interacts with the global setting. So what kind of feminism is it that you kind of utilize in this book?
- [05:23]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Nina, that is a trick question right there.
- [05:27]
Let me just go back for a moment and say that I was born and raised in South Africa, where I also worked at a newspaper before I came to the United States for graduate school. I was 29 when I came to the United States. So, yes, I am situated in the United States, but I think coming from South Africa and having lived there and having that perspective, that really is what motivated me to include perspectives from the global south, which of course also is a contested term when we look at journalism and global perspectives. I think much of journalism studies research has focused on the west and specifically on democracies. You know, the idea is kind of that journalism is essential for democracy, but democracy is not essential for journalism, which was kind of a new thing for me to think about. And my colleague, Tatiana Karlyova helped me understand that better. There is a case study that she wrote about journalism in Belarus, where people do journalism. It is just not the type of journalism that you would think happens in democracies. So that is kind of the global perspective. And then I wanted to talk about feminism because obviously we are interested here in gender roles and how men and women perform in the news. So, you know, I think like journalism studies, gender studies also is very Western dominated. And it's only maybe the last 20, 30 years that we've heard more voices from the developing world or the majority world. And there are very important feminist perspectives, whether it's third world feminism, post colonial, decolonial, transnational perspectives, and then also intersectionality. That really informed my book here for sure.
- [07:31]
Nina Bo Wagner
I thought that was a great discussion. And I also thought the democratic aspect and democracies versus non democracies was really interesting as well. Especially with, I mean, not to veer too far off the path, but with the way things are going in the world, I thought it was really educational, especially now and then you move on to the sociological view of studying journalism.
- [07:57]
Why was it important to include this and how does it kind of like help the students throughout the rest of the book?
- [08:03]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes. So there are obviously different approaches of studying the mass media. And in the early years of the discipline, I would say after the Second World War, the emphasis was a lot on media effects. So people wanted to see if readers or viewers are exposed to certain media messages, what would the impact be on them? And I think that that's interesting to study. But then in the 1970s, the media sociological perspective emerged, and here the question is more what happens before a message is created or how is the message created more so than the impact of the message on audiences. And I think studying this way that the news is constructed or made also allows you to ask more questions about power and influences in the media. So I wanted students to be able to think about whether the news really is independent and what are the different factors that influence how we see news? You know, we just had this discussion in my class, like, does news reflect reality? And it is possible, if you think about how many things happen every day, everywhere. So the news media have to select certain things and leave other things out. And I think that is. That is just part of thinking about the construction of reality and about media selection and framing that then hopefully will help students understand further on when we talk about women in newsrooms, but also the representation of women in the news.
- [09:42]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, for sure. That's actually a really good way. I hadn't thought of putting it that way in regards to gender, but in this chapter you outline the hierarchy of influences model. Do you want to give an example of that? Maybe.
- [09:55]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes. So I was fortunate to do my PhD at the University of Texas at Austin. And my supervisor was Steve Rees, who is a very well known media sociologist. In fact, he and Pamela Shoemaker wrote their book Mediating the Media Message. And in this book they set out the hierarchy of influences. And basically what this hierarchy says is that there are five levels of factors that influence how the news gets made. And it starts out with large ideological factors, extra media influences, organizational influences, newsroom routines, and then the individual. And I just find that model really helpful to kind of think through at each level. How does that impact women's access, participation, and representation in the news media? And I actually wrote one time a piece where I did apply this model focused on gender. And so I think it's a useful way for students to think about how the news media actually works, for sure.
- [11:10]
Nina Bo Wagner
I mean, coming from a political science background myself, I thought it was a really interesting kind of almost new perspective on power and one kind of modality of power. So I really liked that aspect as well.
- [11:25]
And then you jump a little bit to go on to cover the history of women in journalism, and you do that across two chapters, and one of them is based on scholarship and one of them is based on reports.
- [11:43]
Would you be able to maybe outline that history just briefly? And then I'm curious why you ended up dividing it in this way.
- [11:52]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes. So the first few chapters in the book, I kind of set out the theoretical approach and different approaches to this book. And then, as you say, the next section then is talking about global perspectives on. So this was actually really interesting. I wrote in my book proposal that I wanted to do a chapter on the global history of women in journalism. And then one of the reviewers asked me, how are you going to do that?
- [12:22]
And so when I sat down when the time came to write the chapter, that was the question I had to ask myself, okay, how am I going to do this? I definitely wanted to talk more about various countries around the world. And the problem is that each country is unique, right? And each country has its own history, its own conditions and so on. But I wanted to see if I can find kind of threads, themes that came through across countries. And in doing so, you do lose the specificity of each of the countries necessarily. But still I was able to do that. I found research from Russia, from Ghana, South Africa.
- [13:11]
Various places. And I was able to find kind of themes, you know, for example, women worked with men at the time when the printing press was still attached to homes before industrialization, because it was. It was at the house. But then when industrialization took place, and we see the development of steam presses, building of factories, these factories were in areas that were not deemed suitable for women to go to kind of rough and tumble. And so women were not considered to really be. It was not considered to be proper or appropriate for women to be journalists. So maybe women would write pieces and send it to the newsroom. And then there was the development of separate publications for women. Also in regular mainstream publications, they would start maybe a section, women's pages, or just a column for women. But overall, there is also a theme, kind of, of women wanting to.
- [14:21]
To help marginalized voices, voices many women talked about, wanting to kind of give voice to people who do not typically get voice. But then there were also other issues, you know, like nationalism, national liberation, anti colonialism. In the United States, commercialism was a big factor because newspapers introduced women's pages in order to get women readers right. But then it was also interesting for me to see some of those other factors that played out in other countries. But I haven't answered your question, so let's go back. So that chapter was kind of looking at academic research on women's history in the media, news media. And then the next chapter looks at industry reports. For me, those are quite different, those two chapters. The reports basically summarize. I think I have nine or so different reports in there, starting with the earliest reports at UNESCO, I think, was 1979. And then Margaret Gallagher's work on women in the news media. And then we talk about the Global Media Monitoring Project, the International Women's Media Foundation's global report, as well as more recent studies done by Reuters Institute of Journalism in Oxford. And then also Luba Kostova's series of very recent research. So I wanted to group those reports together. And as I told my students just this week, you know, before we study the current situation of women in the news, I think it's important to know what has been done. So these reports really give us a good foundation. It gives us a good background of what are the findings of studies that have already been done. And that thing prepares us to move on to more recent research.
- [16:14]
Podcast Host Intro/Ad Reader
The holidays have a way of sneaking up on you. And I can tell you they snuck up on me. This year I have people coming, and I need to buy those people gifts. As I say, I just didn't have everything I need. So what I did is I went to Wayfair from Bedding to linens, to decor. For every room in the house. Wayfair is your one stop shop last minute guest prep. Wayfair has you covered. You can refresh bedding and throw pillows and accent chairs. For way less. That's what I did. Pretty much all the bedding in my house is threadbare, so I decided to replace it. I went to Wayfair and I ordered some new sheets and pillowcases and I got a comforter which was really cool. I ordered it, the price was great, the shipping was free. It arrived and now I am ready for the hoards to descend upon me. And it's not just bedding, of course. You can get linens and towels and things for the kids room, kitchen essentials, things for your living room. And of course they have holiday gifts. So get your last minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [17:28]
Margarita Gercema Sly
You know how to make a great meal. And when it comes to the mess, Palmolive knows how to handle it.
- [17:36]
Palmolive Ultra removes up to 2.5 times the grease versus Donnan concentrated. Palmolive's most powerful formula instantly cuts grease, leaving you with sparkling clean dishes. Palmolive Ultra. Click or tap the banner to shop now or visit palmolive.com you're basking on a beach in the Bahamas. Now you're journeying through the jade forests of Japan. Now you're there for your alma mater's epic win.
- [18:05]
Nina Bo Wagner
And now you're awake.
- [18:07]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Womp womp. Which means it was all a dream. But with millions of incredible deals on Priceline, those travel dreams can be a reality. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline Audio. Happy price. Priceline?
- [18:25]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, for sure. And I actually found myself while I was reading this thinking about kind of ways that this type of research might change now because obviously the media landscape is changing so much. I mean, do you have any thoughts about how data will be collected now or how it might change in the future or kind of like what you would like to see?
- [18:49]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Well, that is interesting because the earliest studies, 1979 study, for example, only summarized existing research, right? So they did not do regional research, but then some of the next studies did. And then of course The Global Media Monitoring project is the longest standing project since 1995. I think they recently started also including online media and I think maybe social media.
- [19:23]
But then also in the series by Luba Kosova, she has some very interesting new methods that she's using. She's also introducing new terms that haven't been used before.
- [19:38]
So I think, I would say for people who are interested in doing these studies, it's important to look at what has already been done and then build upon the existing research.
- [19:49]
Nina Bo Wagner
For sure. Yeah. And I mean, your book is the perfect introduction to that.
- [19:55]
And in the. So what the chapters on women in journalism, the history kind of also gives us an insight into is the challenges that women had faced with entering journalism and kind of like the views that have been on women in journalism. Which leads us into your next chapter, which is about worldwide violence against women reporters. And here you interestingly state that women reporters face triple threats of violence. What do you mean by that?
- [20:30]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes, and so that was actually not my thought. I read it somewhere in the literature and I did find it interesting because the idea is that women. Let's start over. Journalists to start out, it's difficult and dangerous to be a journalist, right. Whether you are in a dangerous situation or even if people harass you because of your opinions, you know, depending on freedom of the press, people get jailed or killed or anything. So, yeah, it can be dangerous to be a journalist. And then the second form is being a woman, Right. Women face gender based violence around the world. And then if you put the two together, you also face challenges as a women journalist. Right? So not only do you face challenges as a journalist and as a woman, but now we combine these two. So, yes, men and women journalists both experience challenges and there is violence, but when it comes to women, it is different because of the gendered nature of this violence, which can be physical or it can be digital. I think one of the biggest concerns lately, it is seen as a threat to freedom of press. You know, is the persistent.
- [21:47]
Harassment of women online. You know, the types of comments that women journalists get are very different from what men get. You know, for a women journalist, the comment online may be something like, I'm gonna rape and kill you. You know, it is very explicit, it's very violent. A man may get a comment that say, that's stupid or I disagree with you or something. So. So it has become very much more intense for women journalists to be continuously exposed to this kind of digital violence in their work.
- [22:23]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, you talk about it being.
- [22:27]
Potentially a form of.
- [22:31]
Media suppression. What are some of the. You also talk about some of the strategies that women used to deal with these types of comments. Can you tell me a bit about that?
- [22:44]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah, you know, I do want to also look at solutions, but there are different strategies that women have used. Unfortunately, one of them is leaving journalism. Right. And that is not new to the digital age. That also happened earlier when women just felt like they cannot fit into a very male dominated environment so women can leave the industry altogether. But then some women say that they, they turn off comments or they do not look at the comments that people write. I think the problem is also that sometimes these digital threads kind of spill over into real physical threads.
- [23:30]
So I don't know, there are not many solutions, unfortunately, at this time. I think women are just kind of trying to continue forward and not to let that stop them from doing their work.
- [23:42]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, women leaving journalism is also something that comes up in your next chapter, which is about women's participation in news production. And.
- [23:55]
You point out horizontal and vertical job segregation.
- [24:02]
What does that mean?
- [24:03]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah, so these terms actually originated quite early in research. I think Margaret Keller used those terms in her reports for UNESCO in the 1980s. She did original research actually on women's employment in the media. So horizontal job segregation basically means that men and women on the same level of the job do different topics, they do different beats. So research has shown, you know, that the, the beats of politics and economics, for example, are dominated by men and things like health, healthcare, what else? Education, you know, are dominated by women. So that is an example of horizontal job segregation. But then we also see vertical job segregation. So here we look at up and down the ladder that most people at the top of news organizations are men, and women typically work at lower levels of the news organization. So hence it is considered to be vertical job segregation. And it is quite extreme. I think something like 70% or more of the top leaders in journalism are men, 30% or less are women. And so we need to think, how does that impact our newsroom cultures and also the selection and representation of issues in the news?
- [25:31]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember being quite shocked by reading this chapter. You have a section that's called Marriage, Motherhood and Family Responsibilities. And if I can just read, I kind of put together the first sentence of each paragraph of this section. And when you read it together, it's basically just. Well, I mean, you'll see this work requires dedicated reporters who can work long and unpredictable hours, which is challenging for women if they also work A second shift by caring for household and children. In certain countries, women journalists are considered to be sex workers or loose women because of their late working hours and interactions with news sources who are men. Negative perceptions of women journalists may diminish their chances of getting married if they are still single. Single and then the ringer yet single women are also seen in a negative light. So I thought it was very illustrative of this kind of like double standard and kind of like, you're cursed if you do, you're cursed if you don't as a woman journalism or as a woman journalist.
- [26:39]
And I thought, yeah, it was very illustrative of kind of like the points that you outline. And this also has to do with. Because we're talking about horizontal segregation and you talk about kind of like, as you mentioned, the difference between hard beats and soft beats. But this is different from separate kind of outlets which you mentioned.
- [27:04]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Or yes, it's interesting when you put it together like that. You know, I, I agree with you. It. So. So to be a woman and a journalist is. Is. Well, to be anybody and a journalist is very difficult, right, because it's long hours, it's irregular, it's late in the night, breaking news, things happen, you know, so it is challenging. But I think in many countries, the responsibility for children and for the household still rests with women. And that's, you know, the second shift. So women work a full day and then they also, after work, do the household work. So I think if people are in a, in a marriage, you know, it is important to have support from the spouse to enable the women to work. But I read stories about like, women taking their babies to the office to breastfeed, you know, just really difficult. And I think, I wish we had more childcare at newspaper offices, news media offices in general, because somebody has to take care of kids, you know, and it is very difficult to do both of those things. So, yeah, so to be married is challenging, but then if you're not married, that also people think that, why are you not married? And then I was also surprised when I read about kind of the connotation of women journalists with sex workers. The idea that they're out late at night mixing with strange men, people that they don't know, what are they up to? You know, they cannot be women of good moral standing.
- [28:49]
So that is just another layer then of a challenge that women face in journalism that makes it very difficult, for sure.
- [28:59]
Nina Bo Wagner
I mean, I would also love to see this kind of like, contrasted with the.
- [29:05]
Image of a male journalist that we often see, which is this kind of like loner, glamorized, kind of like lone wolf journalist dedicated to his work. You know, obviously there are other more negative portrayals as well, but it's just quite striking when you put them next to each other.
- [29:24]
Yeah. So in your chapters on media representation of women, you cover violence against women, murder and rape, and then you also cover war and terrorism.
- [29:40]
I think that obviously when we talk about gender studies, there's a very big field of covering, you know, femicide and sexual violence, violence against women. But less often we see explicit people explicitly address war and terrorism. So I was curious, what made you choose to include the latter two in your discussion of representation of women?
- [30:08]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yes, there is also kind of a hidden section in there, women in Politics. But so what I did is I wanted to see what types of research are available on news representations of women globally. You know, and that's basically what guided me in writing this chapter, these two chapters, because when you look at more globally, you know, you. There is quite a bit of research on women, war and terrorism. And then that chapter also includes issues such as military women, suicide bombers, women, refugees and migration, women in ISIS and so on, you know, so there is quite a large body of that work. So I wanted to make sure to reflect that in this book.
- [31:00]
Nina Bo Wagner
I don't know how to pose this question necessarily. I think it may be. It could come across wrong. But I think that sometimeswell, at least, I would surmise that there's quite a striking.
- [31:16]
Or that the west has a particular way of portraying kind of like women in war and.
- [31:26]
Terrorism. And so I was wondering how those topics kind of like tied into the global perspective of the book.
- [31:33]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Oh, yes.
- [31:36]
Yeah. I think typically.
- [31:40]
Scholarship shows that women are often associated kind of with peace, while men are associated with war. But then that is also not completely true because there are many gendered aspects of war that we just need to eliminate. And yes, women are often shown as victims of war, which they are, but women also are more than just victims. Women also participate in war as terrorists or suicide bombers or other types of more formal military participation. But even in that cases.
- [32:22]
Women are often shown in a negative light. And I want to go back to one of the earlier chapters, I think the media sociology chapter, where I have an information box about Gay Tuckman, and she popularized the term symbolic annihilation of women in the news media. And I think that is what we see. You know, there are consistent negative representations of women, whether as victims or.
- [32:53]
Nina Bo Wagner
Maybe.
- [32:53]
Margarita Gercema Sly
As, you know, especially when you bring religion into that refugees, women and Islam. That is a pretty big topic. Women in isis. So I you know, the jihadi bride, you know, that was so interesting in my research. Many of these women who joined isis, for example, to marry the so called jihadi brides.
- [33:18]
They were kind of shown in a negative light. But then also the issue then came back later on when they wanted to move back to their countries where they came from. Then they were shown in an even more negative light like they should not, they are traitors, they should never be allowed to come back and so on. So I thought that was an interesting kind of addition to existing literature to kind of look at these different representations of women Dick's Deal Days Start Sunday. Enjoy four days of epic deals online and in the app Score exclusive scorecard and app only offers plus one day deals on Nike, Adidas and more. Can't wait. Shop now@Dick's.com or in the Dick's app for Cyber Week deals. Every holiday starts at Dick's.
- [34:10]
Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition. At University of Phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for. Simple as that. Explore scholarship options at University of Phoenix.
- [34:26]
This episode is brought to you by Corona. When you're on a beach with a nice cold Corona in hand, how can you not feel centered? But did you know you can get that vibe anywhere? That's because whether after work, at barbecues or at a bar with just a squeeze of lime, Corona brings you La Playa mentality. Because while we all want the beach life, paradise doesn't always have palm trees. Corona La Playa awaits. Get yours@order corona.com Relax responsibly. Corona Extra Beer Imported by Crown Import, Chicago, Illinois.
- [34:55]
Nina Bo Wagner
Right. So it's like even women who do bad things, it's like their agency is taken from them or given to them, like depending on circumstance or depending on the goals of the news media.
- [35:11]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Right?
- [35:12]
Nina Bo Wagner
For sure.
- [35:14]
And I was actually really happy to see you quote Cynthia Enlow in that chapter because she's one of my favorites.
- [35:21]
Which also leads me to you move on to a chapter on gender and international media development.
- [35:28]
Which contains a summary of developmental politics since the field emerged after the Second World War. And it also addresses women in development and gender and development and development media. I mean, this is like a mammoth of a topic. I mean, I'd say this is just as if not more ambitious than the history of women in journalism, just because there's more sources. But I thought it was a great comprehensive summary that I'm Sure. That your students definitely benefit from. Why was it so important to include this much context?
- [36:10]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah. So we are now talking about the last part of the book, and I wanted to end with a section called Toward Change because it's all, you know, learning about challenges and so on. So we really do have to think about solutions moving forward. And so the one chapter is about gender and international media development, and then the other one talks about media activism and journalism education. And then going back to your question, I think that I wanted to include this chapter because oftentimes the places where we talk about women in the global south and the news media, there is literature in gender and media development circles, but I don't think students really ever get exposed to that. And so I wanted to include it, but I also wanted to make sure that they kind of understand the context, you know.
- [37:09]
So each of my chapters is 6,000 words. And, you know, that was kind of nice because I know this is what I have. I have to fit everything in here. And so I just tried to be as succinct as possible, summarizing kind of what is development, where does it come from? And then specifically media development, in contrast to other types of development, and the role of women, of empowering women in developing countries to become more active in the news media.
- [37:43]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, I mean, that's actually. That makes sense that you had a word limit and you fit it in and you can really tell that it's kind of like cut down to the bone and we learn kind of the impact. Impactful developments. And one of them I really enjoyed reading about. It was kind of like the media.
- [38:03]
I can't remember what it's called, but the guidelines that came out of the 1995 Beijing Women's World Conference, what was that?
- [38:13]
Margarita Gercema Sly
So in 1995, at the fourth conference, World Conference on Women in Beijing, the Beijing Platform for Action was created, and it had several recommendations. And specifically, section J of the Platform for Action outlines things that need to happen for women in the news media. And they use this differentiation of women participating in the news media and then women being represented in the news media. I actually talk about that quite early on. I have an information box in the book. And so that was the last global conference for women, and that's 30 years ago now, you know, so this year people are asking, so what happened to those commitments made at Beijing in the conference? And where do we stand not just with section J, but also other sections of the declaration to see what progress has been made for women globally?
- [39:13]
Nina Bo Wagner
Well, I mean, I can't help but ask, like, where do we stand? I think you also address.
- [39:18]
The. Was it in the Sustainable Development Goals where they've included a section on media but not been super explicit about gender?
- [39:28]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah. I think more recently we have seen media kind of disappearing from these agendas. So there would be goals. For example, gender equality would be a goal, or the alleviation or eradication of poverty would be a goal. Right. So obviously gender intersects there with poverty and other issues, but somehow the explicit reference to media has fallen away. And I think there is some concern globally about that.
- [40:02]
Nina Bo Wagner
For sure.
- [40:03]
Margarita Gercema Sly
You mean?
- [40:04]
Nina Bo Wagner
I'm definitely concerned. And then as you mentioned, in this kind of like towards action section, you end by speaking about feminist.
- [40:15]
Media activism and journalism education. And this was a really fun chapter for me to read because towards the end of the book, I feel it gets increasingly meta because obviously this is.
- [40:29]
A journalism educational book that is doing a big part in some of the critiques that it sets out of the field. But what are the general kind of issues with journalism education at the minute?
- [40:43]
Margarita Gercema Sly
I'm glad you found it fun and interesting. I hope my students will too. Yeah. So journalism education, unfortunately, is, I think, quite traditional. And typically the perspectives are Western, male like perspectives, you know, so there is a growing kind of desire to decolonize or de. Westernize or southernize education. Not just education, but also research in the field. And there are interesting things that people suggest.
- [41:22]
Perhaps look at more indigenous languages, but also looking at how do we write stories, what do we emphasize?
- [41:31]
Also pedagogy, you know, how do we actually teach these classes? And I think those are good for us to think about, to kind of have a critical lens on how we educate journalism students, you know, so that they can be better prepared for a diverse and a global world, for sure.
- [41:51]
Nina Bo Wagner
And then you kind of have a Final Thoughts section which you refer to at the beginning of this conversation, where you talk about the countries that were included in this book and kind of like how broad reaching it was and.
- [42:11]
Where it could have included more if there had been more.
- [42:16]
Sources. Why was it important for you to have this kind of, like, I would say, almost radical transparency that I'd not really seen seen in very many other books at the end of it.
- [42:27]
Margarita Gercema Sly
That is such an interesting comment, Nina. Radical transparency. I like it. Well, to be completely honest, as I got to the end of the book, I wanted to see, what did I do, you know, because I set out to be as global as pos as possible. And so I wanted to see, okay, what, what, what did we Cover? What did I cover? Right. And. And so I kind of did some number crunching. And I think another goal there was to see, okay, so where are we now after this book? What was covered but what still needs to be covered? And you know that that is then the direction that future research should go, because.
- [43:11]
101 countries were not included in this book. And I'm not saying that there is no research there that is possible, no research published, no research in English.
- [43:25]
But. And then why, why is there no research in these countries? And how can we access more information about countries that are not currently included? So my kind of call to action at the end of the book is for scholars and for students to say, okay, so we've covered 48% of the countries. Let's see if we can find more information on the other 52% of countries that are not included. And that is actually also. That gave me an idea for my next project, which I can also talk about if you want to.
- [44:00]
Nina Bo Wagner
Yeah, go for it. I'd love to hear.
- [44:02]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah, you know, so then I say to myself, what can I do to make a meaningful contribution to the field? After I wrote this book and I decided I am going to do an edited collection with original research by authors about this topic, but focusing on the global south. And really what I want to do is then to focus on those countries that we don't have information about. Now, that is very challenging. I did prepare.
- [44:37]
A proposal that is currently under review at Routledge. I was able to gather 50 chapter proposals from around the world. I selected 29 of those and it's fantastic. It is from countries, some of them that have not been covered before. I think Kazakhstan is in there, Cambodia.
- [45:01]
Zambia.
- [45:03]
Ethiopia. Countries that we really don't see research coming from. And so I received positive feedback from the publisher and I'm in the process of responding to some of the reviewer comments. But I'm hoping then that this edited collection will increase the knowledge in the field, especially where we currently have gaps.
- [45:27]
Nina Bo Wagner
For sure. Yeah, that sounds extremely interesting. I hope that that all goes well and goes through and maybe we can discuss it one day. But yeah, that would be great. And actually I want to just follow up on the call to action. You say all of your chapters end with discussion questions for the students. I'm curious. Obviously, this is a very new book. The academic year just started, but have you used it yet? What's been kind of like the reaction to the book and also, what was your intention with including these questions?
- [46:01]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Yeah, so, you know, it's like, I Decided I want to do a textbook, right? So now you sit down. How do you write a textbook? And I talked to the Ralph Leech and I said, okay, so who am I going to work with? And I said, no, you're the author, you do your thing. Like, okay, so you know, what you do then is you find out how to write a textbook. So I found a book teaching me how to write a textbook that I read. And then from that book, what I found important, what I wanted to include in this book and what I did was to have several pedagogical features. So for example, for each chapter it follows the same template. Like there's an overview, then there's clear student learning outcomes, then the content, and then there's a summary.
- [46:48]
Key terms that I define in the glossary, and then there are discussion questions, right? So each of the chapters follow that template. And so, you know, I am, I actually am using my book this semester in my class called Gender and Global Views here at Butler University. And I'm super excited to be using it. But I'm going to be honest, you know, the first couple days I stood in front of the class, it's like I have all this information in my head, right? And now the students are sitting here in front of me. But now how do you bridge that gap between everything that's in my head and what they don't know yet? So I think the first few lessons, that was a little bit of a challenge for me also trying to understand where students come from, what they already know, what they're interested in, what their career goals are. You know, so people come from different places, people, some people want to work in public relations, some want to be in sports media and so on. So, you know, I approached it cautiously. And now we are a few weeks into this semester. I enjoying it so much. I find at the end of each lecture we go through these discussion questions and I have students go in small groups and they discuss the different questions and then to hear what they come up with, you know, their answers. It's very fascinating, it's interesting. And I'm so happy that I created the questions. Another thing that I did is I created quizzes for each chapter. And so what I do now is I require my students to complete a very short 10 question true and false quiz before coming to class. So hopefully that encourages them to review the work before coming to class. And it also shows to them what are the important things that they need to pay attention to.
- [48:49]
And I told them, look, if you don't read the chapter, you have a 50, 50 chance. With each of these questions, you can pick. Right. True or false. Right. And that's true. But I find that students. Some of the questions are quite difficult. And I can see when students have not reviewed the chapter, and so it encourages them. So by the time we get together as a class, they already have some idea what the topics are. And for each of the quizzes that I post on Canvas, our learning management system, I add an additional question where I say, is there anything that you did not understand? Is there anything that you would like to discuss further? Any feedback? And then sometimes students will write there, and that's not for credit. You know, they would write, well, they really don't understand this concept or they would like to talk more about that concept. And so that helps me when I prepare also to kind of know what are the topics that they struggle with. So, anyway, I. I personally really enjoy using my book. You know, this book is dedicated to the reader. I told my students the first day of class that I wrote this book for them. I think they like that. And it's true, you know, because I've been teaching this course for several years. And one of the reasons I did the book is because I couldn't find a book that. That presented what I want in. In the content. And so I was just always putting different stuff together, taking from this book, taking from this article, you know, and then I realized that I have all this information I need to package it together, and that. That really, this is a book that comes from years of research, more than 20 years, years of teaching, maybe 10 years, and putting it together so that students can hold this in their hand, you know, or on their device, because there's also an ebook plus, and everything is packaged together for them. So, yes, I'm glad it has all these pedagogical features. I think I find it helpful. And my feedback so far from students is that they like that.
- [50:54]
Nina Bo Wagner
Okay. Amazing. Yeah, that's great. And you're so right. It's important to compile so much knowledge. I'm so happy that it's working out for you, and I definitely enjoyed reading the book. And also I'm glad that it's led to another project which other people can get to enjoy as well. And, you know, if people want to read the book or use the book for teaching, even, I would recommend that as well. And yeah, thank you so much for joining me. Margarita, is there any final comments you'd like to make?
- [51:24]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Oh, I just. I want to thank you for the opportunity to talk about my book. You know, I can talk about it for a long time, having worked on it, you know, for about two years. And it's nice to know that you looked at it. And I hope that people will enjoy our discussion and people can reach out to me for questions. I have a website, you know, or an email. Always happy to discuss this work.
- [51:50]
Nina Bo Wagner
Okay. That's great. And yeah, thank you for listening to the new Books Network. I'll catch you in the next one.
- [52:08]
Margarita Gercema Sly
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. One of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.