Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation"

Episode Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Kellen McFall
Guests: Mark Celinscak & Mehnaz Afridi, co-editors

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep dive into the landmark collection "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation" (University of Nebraska Press, 2025). Host Kellen McFall speaks with editors Mark Celinscak and Mehnaz Afridi about their motivations, editorial process, the book's global scope, and standout essays from the volume. The conversation explores how Holocaust memory and historiography extend far beyond Europe—shaped by migration, education, and contemporary politics in places ranging from North Africa and India to South America and East Asia.

Meet the Editors ([03:32])

Mark Celinscak's Academic Journey

Background: Lewis and Frances Blomkin Professor of Holocaust Studies, University of Nebraska Omaha.
Path to the Field: Initially focused on military/cultural history; interested in how soldiers represent war through art and literature.
Pivot to Holocaust Studies: Fascinated by the "limits of representation" in Holocaust literature while at York University; merged war and Holocaust studies focusing on Allied soldiers' responses to concentration camp liberation.

“My long-standing interest in war studies and my burgeoning interest in Holocaust studies— the most obvious topic was the liberation of Nazi camps... How do you turn that situation into a work of art? What do you write home? How do you communicate?” —Mark [05:34]

Mehnaz Afridi's Academic Journey

Background: Professor of Religious Studies with worldwide upbringing; deep focus on Jewish-Muslim relations.
Formative Moments:
- TA'd for Holocaust scholar Dr. Alan Berger, which sparked her academic Holocaust interest.
- Experienced anti-Semitism in some Muslim communities and felt compelled to address it as a Muslim woman.
Central Themes: Interfaith relations, cultural representation, challenging antisemitism from within.

“There was a lot of antisemitism in many different Muslim communities... and I wanted to do something about that as a Muslim woman. And that's how my journey kind of took off.” —Mehnaz [08:10]

The Book Cover: Symbolizing Displacement and Movement ([08:28–12:20])

Artwork: "Mr. Nobody. Shanghai," 1947 by David Ludwig Bloch, a German Jewish, deaf artist and Dachau survivor who fled to Shanghai.
Significance:
- Encapsulates global displacement, refugee status, and stagnant versus dynamic movement.
- The suitcase with "displaced person, nobody anywhere" evokes the book’s focus on global refugee experience post-Holocaust.
- Bloch’s own peripatetic survival mirrors many chapters’ subjects.
“It's a global photograph... There's a movement about it—water, displacement, and travel... it really does represent the book quite well.” —Mark [11:45]

Editorial Goals & Educational Impact ([12:20–17:40])

Aspirations for the Book ([13:08])

Bringing the Holocaust to the World:
- Targeting diverse classrooms, from Mexico to Japan and Mauritius.
- Each chapter is accessible for teaching and relevant for local contexts.
- Emphasis on pedagogy and utility—contributors were asked to write for educational use.
Balancing Academic and Accessible Writing:
- Even highly academic essays include syntheses suited for students.
Global Connections:
- Demonstrates interconnectedness: e.g., the voyage of the MS St. Louis and ripple effects across continents.
- Moves beyond 'memory' to include history and representation (memorials, curricula, politics).
“The impact is what I'm after as an educator, as an academic, and as a person.” —Mehnaz [15:35] “We try to demonstrate the global dimensions in a number of different categories, not simply through the lens of memory.” —Mark [16:57]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refugee Movement and National Responses ([17:40–24:03])

Common Narrative: Jews were largely denied refuge, though exceptions and nuances exist.
Nuanced Chapters:
- Mexico’s Shifting Attitudes post-WWII [18:23]
- Richard Menkes’ study of Canadian policy—Canada admitted only about 5,000 Jewish refugees during 1933–1948. ([22:00])
- Rebecca Belding's work on the Fort Ontario refugee shelter (US): ~1,000 refugees, mostly Jewish.
- Shanghai's exceptional openness compared to Canada/Australia/India; the Philippines as another exception.
“Canada... did less than almost any other Western country to help Jewish refugees... only about 5,000 Jewish refugees entered Canada during that period.” —Mark [22:20]

2. History vs. Individual Agency ([24:17–27:50])

Essay Focuses: Some essays zoom in on bureaucrats (e.g., in Canada), diplomats (Sugihara in Japan), others address massive structures—depression, unemployment, state policy.
Memory Manipulation: Sugihara is remembered differently in Japan (“hero,” masks wartime crimes), Lithuania (amidst near destruction of its Jewish population), Israel (as Righteous).
Anne Frank’s Japanese reception: Focus on coming-of-age; her Jewishness and the nature of her persecution minimized.

“There's a way that memory can manipulate the past... COVID over darker parts of a country's history.” —Mark [26:56] “There's a term... nostalgic dissonance. We all have nostalgia and longing, but we're not always aligned with how we’re actually having that memory in that moment.” —Mehnaz [27:50]

3. Global Holocaust Education: Challenges and Goals ([29:41–36:22])

Regional Failures: India and much of the Middle East lack Holocaust education; Nazism and antisemitism are sometimes appropriated by extremists.
Success Stories & Nuance: South Africa uses Holocaust education to highlight extremism and human rights—mandated curriculum.
Barriers:
- Politicization and elitism of Holocaust education.
- Often framed as a "white Christian male study."
- In the US, not consistently mandated in all states.
Pluralistic Inclusion:
- Inclusion of the Muslim world’s narratives is vital; pedagogical change must embrace multiple voices and experiences.
“If we want Holocaust education to reach areas where it is not studied... include in a genuine way, in a meaningful way, these places in the story.” —Mehnaz, via Mark [31:22] “It's always been seen as a white Christian male study... and that has given it a sort of closed door policy.” —Mehnaz [35:25]

4. Universal Themes vs. Local Memory ([36:44–41:51])

The "Never Again" Tension: Universal calls for prevention versus honoring unique local (national/regional) histories—apartheid, Latin American dictatorship, etc.
Teaching Prejudice: Holocaust education has power in exploring prejudice, propaganda, stereotyping—skills and awareness transferrable to present.
Expanding the Definition:
- Can definitions of the Holocaust include North African and Channel Islands experiences? Where do geographic and chronological boundaries sit?
- Tension between always returning to the genocide of European Jews vs. expanding scope responsibly.
“When you explore the Holocaust from the perspective of the United States... that telling of that story will look invariably different.” —Mark [40:01] “Are you losing the central focus of the field, which is the genocide of European Jews?” —Mark [41:49]

Notable Chapters & Memorable Moments

1. Palestinian Perspectives on Holocaust Education

(Mohamed Dajani Daoudi and Zeina Barakat chapter) [42:20–45:55]

Points out that the Holocaust is not denied but relativized; awareness filtered through political/literary narratives that often serve different agendas.
Cites examples from Turkish/Armenian history—competing claims over historical memory.
Urges readers to understand how media and literature shape understanding, and to facilitate genuine dialogue by introducing new narratives.

“The problem is that the Holocaust is not necessarily denied in a lot of these narratives, but it’s relativized. … this chapter... becomes a barrier of this education.” —Mehnaz [42:38]

2. Australia’s Anti-Refugee Agenda

(Paul Bartrop’s chapter) [45:56–48:01]

Parallels with Canada: Both Commonwealth nations closed doors to Jewish refugees.
Detailed account of bureaucratic restrictions and loophole navigation; shows post-1945 refusal to take back Jews adds to difficulty for survivors seeking refuge.

“He shows in great, great detail just how the Australian government was so unsympathetic to Jews fleeing Nazism. There was really an anti-refugee agenda in Australia.” —Mark [46:28]

3. Epilogue: The Story of Charles Bliss

(Mark’s epilogue account) [48:49–53:26]

Bliss, an Austrian Jew, survived by zig-zagging across Europe, Asia, and Australia, showing the immense global scale of Holocaust displacement.
Parallels to the cover art: global yet unanchored, constantly moving in search of safety.
Bliss later created a language for children with communication challenges—symbolizing the collective attempt to narrate the Holocaust across disciplines.

“The experience of Bliss reveals... the global scale of the Holocaust. Shows how the global community... became implicated in the Holocaust.” —Mark [49:32]

4. Final Reflection: Representation and Existential Uncertainty

Stavans’ chapter on Guida Blumenthal—combining history, fiction, and philosophy—closes the book with stories of those who did not survive, emphasizing existential risk and fate.

Closing Reflections and Ongoing Research ([58:06–end])

Mark’s next project: "Two Roses", a graphic history of a Polish Jewish survivor who hid as a Gentile in Nazi Germany, illustrated by Miriam Lubicki, with a foreword by Timothy Snyder.
Mehnaz’s next project: "The Wounded Muslim: Memory and Tragedy" — a study of Muslim victimhood and genocide, including the Rohingya, Bosnia, the Uyghurs, and Palestine.
Both editors champion cross-disciplinary, accessible, and globally-aware approaches to Holocaust and genocide studies.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

[05:34] Mark: “How do you turn that [liberation] situation into a work of art? What do you write home? What language, what metaphors do you use?”
[11:45] Mark: “This refugee isn’t going anywhere... His head is buried. Clearly he’s been through a lot. He is stationary. He’s got this suitcase that says, you know, displaced person. Nobody Anywhere. I will go anywhere. And unfortunately, in this moment, he can’t find a home.”
[15:35] Mehnaz: “The impact is what I’m after as an educator, as an academic and as a person.”
[22:20] Mark: “Canada did less than almost any other Western country to help Jewish refugees... only about 5,000 Jewish refugees entered Canada during that period.”
[26:56] Mark: “There’s a way that memory can... manipulate the past, can kind of COVID over darker parts of a country’s history.”
[31:22] Mark (paraphrasing Mehnaz): “If we want Holocaust education to reach areas where it is not studied... include in a genuine way, in a meaningful way, these places in the story.”
[35:25] Mehnaz: “It’s always been seen as a white Christian male study... and that has also given it a sort of closed door policy.”
[42:38] Mehnaz: “The problem is that the Holocaust is not necessarily denied in a lot of these narratives, but it’s relativized.”
[49:32] Mark: “The experience of Bliss reveals... the global scale of the Holocaust. Shows how the global community... became implicated in the Holocaust.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

[03:32] Guest Introductions and Academic Backstories
[08:28] About the Cover Art and Its Symbolism
[12:20] Editorial Goals & Educational Approach
[17:40] Discussion of the "History" Section—Immigration and Refugees
[24:17] Individual Figures vs. Structural Analysis
[29:41] Holocaust Education: Global Challenges and Opportunities
[36:44] Universal vs. Local Memory and Representation
[41:51] Definitional Tensions in Holocaust Studies
[42:20] Highlight: Chapter on Palestinian Perspectives
[45:56] Highlight: Australian Anti-Refugee Policy
[48:49] Story of Charles Bliss (Epilogue)
[54:05] Further Reading Suggestions
[58:06] Editors’ Ongoing and Upcoming Work

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is rigorous yet deeply personable, mixing scholarly insight with pedagogy and lived experience. The editors are committed to challenging traditional Eurocentric, memory-focused Holocaust narratives by highlighting global intersections, untold stories, and underrepresented voices—particularly for classroom use across continents. They urge listeners to consider both historical nuance and present-day resonance, and to continue the dialogue in both scholarly and public spheres.

This summary delivers a comprehensive map of the episode for those unable to listen. For further details, consult the book’s diverse chapters—each a portal into the global afterlives and education of the Holocaust.

Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation"

Episode Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Kellen McFall
Guests: Mark Celinscak & Mehnaz Afridi, co-editors

Episode Overview

Meet the Editors ([03:32])

Mark Celinscak's Academic Journey

Background: Lewis and Frances Blomkin Professor of Holocaust Studies, University of Nebraska Omaha.
Path to the Field: Initially focused on military/cultural history; interested in how soldiers represent war through art and literature.
Pivot to Holocaust Studies: Fascinated by the "limits of representation" in Holocaust literature while at York University; merged war and Holocaust studies focusing on Allied soldiers' responses to concentration camp liberation.

“My long-standing interest in war studies and my burgeoning interest in Holocaust studies— the most obvious topic was the liberation of Nazi camps... How do you turn that situation into a work of art? What do you write home? How do you communicate?” —Mark [05:34]

Mehnaz Afridi's Academic Journey

Background: Professor of Religious Studies with worldwide upbringing; deep focus on Jewish-Muslim relations.
Formative Moments:
- TA'd for Holocaust scholar Dr. Alan Berger, which sparked her academic Holocaust interest.
- Experienced anti-Semitism in some Muslim communities and felt compelled to address it as a Muslim woman.
Central Themes: Interfaith relations, cultural representation, challenging antisemitism from within.

“There was a lot of antisemitism in many different Muslim communities... and I wanted to do something about that as a Muslim woman. And that's how my journey kind of took off.” —Mehnaz [08:10]

The Book Cover: Symbolizing Displacement and Movement ([08:28–12:20])

Artwork: "Mr. Nobody. Shanghai," 1947 by David Ludwig Bloch, a German Jewish, deaf artist and Dachau survivor who fled to Shanghai.
Significance:
- Encapsulates global displacement, refugee status, and stagnant versus dynamic movement.
- The suitcase with "displaced person, nobody anywhere" evokes the book’s focus on global refugee experience post-Holocaust.
- Bloch’s own peripatetic survival mirrors many chapters’ subjects.
“It's a global photograph... There's a movement about it—water, displacement, and travel... it really does represent the book quite well.” —Mark [11:45]

Editorial Goals & Educational Impact ([12:20–17:40])

Aspirations for the Book ([13:08])

Bringing the Holocaust to the World:
- Targeting diverse classrooms, from Mexico to Japan and Mauritius.
- Each chapter is accessible for teaching and relevant for local contexts.
- Emphasis on pedagogy and utility—contributors were asked to write for educational use.
Balancing Academic and Accessible Writing:
- Even highly academic essays include syntheses suited for students.
Global Connections:
- Demonstrates interconnectedness: e.g., the voyage of the MS St. Louis and ripple effects across continents.
- Moves beyond 'memory' to include history and representation (memorials, curricula, politics).
“The impact is what I'm after as an educator, as an academic, and as a person.” —Mehnaz [15:35] “We try to demonstrate the global dimensions in a number of different categories, not simply through the lens of memory.” —Mark [16:57]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refugee Movement and National Responses ([17:40–24:03])

Common Narrative: Jews were largely denied refuge, though exceptions and nuances exist.
Nuanced Chapters:
- Mexico’s Shifting Attitudes post-WWII [18:23]
- Richard Menkes’ study of Canadian policy—Canada admitted only about 5,000 Jewish refugees during 1933–1948. ([22:00])
- Rebecca Belding's work on the Fort Ontario refugee shelter (US): ~1,000 refugees, mostly Jewish.
- Shanghai's exceptional openness compared to Canada/Australia/India; the Philippines as another exception.
“Canada... did less than almost any other Western country to help Jewish refugees... only about 5,000 Jewish refugees entered Canada during that period.” —Mark [22:20]

2. History vs. Individual Agency ([24:17–27:50])

Essay Focuses: Some essays zoom in on bureaucrats (e.g., in Canada), diplomats (Sugihara in Japan), others address massive structures—depression, unemployment, state policy.
Memory Manipulation: Sugihara is remembered differently in Japan (“hero,” masks wartime crimes), Lithuania (amidst near destruction of its Jewish population), Israel (as Righteous).
Anne Frank’s Japanese reception: Focus on coming-of-age; her Jewishness and the nature of her persecution minimized.

“There's a way that memory can manipulate the past... COVID over darker parts of a country's history.” —Mark [26:56] “There's a term... nostalgic dissonance. We all have nostalgia and longing, but we're not always aligned with how we’re actually having that memory in that moment.” —Mehnaz [27:50]

3. Global Holocaust Education: Challenges and Goals ([29:41–36:22])

Regional Failures: India and much of the Middle East lack Holocaust education; Nazism and antisemitism are sometimes appropriated by extremists.
Success Stories & Nuance: South Africa uses Holocaust education to highlight extremism and human rights—mandated curriculum.
Barriers:
- Politicization and elitism of Holocaust education.
- Often framed as a "white Christian male study."
- In the US, not consistently mandated in all states.
Pluralistic Inclusion:
- Inclusion of the Muslim world’s narratives is vital; pedagogical change must embrace multiple voices and experiences.
“If we want Holocaust education to reach areas where it is not studied... include in a genuine way, in a meaningful way, these places in the story.” —Mehnaz, via Mark [31:22] “It's always been seen as a white Christian male study... and that has given it a sort of closed door policy.” —Mehnaz [35:25]

4. Universal Themes vs. Local Memory ([36:44–41:51])

The "Never Again" Tension: Universal calls for prevention versus honoring unique local (national/regional) histories—apartheid, Latin American dictatorship, etc.
Teaching Prejudice: Holocaust education has power in exploring prejudice, propaganda, stereotyping—skills and awareness transferrable to present.
Expanding the Definition:
- Can definitions of the Holocaust include North African and Channel Islands experiences? Where do geographic and chronological boundaries sit?
- Tension between always returning to the genocide of European Jews vs. expanding scope responsibly.
“When you explore the Holocaust from the perspective of the United States... that telling of that story will look invariably different.” —Mark [40:01] “Are you losing the central focus of the field, which is the genocide of European Jews?” —Mark [41:49]

Notable Chapters & Memorable Moments

1. Palestinian Perspectives on Holocaust Education

(Mohamed Dajani Daoudi and Zeina Barakat chapter) [42:20–45:55]

Points out that the Holocaust is not denied but relativized; awareness filtered through political/literary narratives that often serve different agendas.
Cites examples from Turkish/Armenian history—competing claims over historical memory.
Urges readers to understand how media and literature shape understanding, and to facilitate genuine dialogue by introducing new narratives.

“The problem is that the Holocaust is not necessarily denied in a lot of these narratives, but it’s relativized. … this chapter... becomes a barrier of this education.” —Mehnaz [42:38]

2. Australia’s Anti-Refugee Agenda

(Paul Bartrop’s chapter) [45:56–48:01]

Parallels with Canada: Both Commonwealth nations closed doors to Jewish refugees.
Detailed account of bureaucratic restrictions and loophole navigation; shows post-1945 refusal to take back Jews adds to difficulty for survivors seeking refuge.

“He shows in great, great detail just how the Australian government was so unsympathetic to Jews fleeing Nazism. There was really an anti-refugee agenda in Australia.” —Mark [46:28]

3. Epilogue: The Story of Charles Bliss

(Mark’s epilogue account) [48:49–53:26]

Bliss, an Austrian Jew, survived by zig-zagging across Europe, Asia, and Australia, showing the immense global scale of Holocaust displacement.
Parallels to the cover art: global yet unanchored, constantly moving in search of safety.
Bliss later created a language for children with communication challenges—symbolizing the collective attempt to narrate the Holocaust across disciplines.

“The experience of Bliss reveals... the global scale of the Holocaust. Shows how the global community... became implicated in the Holocaust.” —Mark [49:32]

4. Final Reflection: Representation and Existential Uncertainty

Stavans’ chapter on Guida Blumenthal—combining history, fiction, and philosophy—closes the book with stories of those who did not survive, emphasizing existential risk and fate.

Closing Reflections and Ongoing Research ([58:06–end])

Mark’s next project: "Two Roses", a graphic history of a Polish Jewish survivor who hid as a Gentile in Nazi Germany, illustrated by Miriam Lubicki, with a foreword by Timothy Snyder.
Mehnaz’s next project: "The Wounded Muslim: Memory and Tragedy" — a study of Muslim victimhood and genocide, including the Rohingya, Bosnia, the Uyghurs, and Palestine.
Both editors champion cross-disciplinary, accessible, and globally-aware approaches to Holocaust and genocide studies.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

[05:34] Mark: “How do you turn that [liberation] situation into a work of art? What do you write home? What language, what metaphors do you use?”
[11:45] Mark: “This refugee isn’t going anywhere... His head is buried. Clearly he’s been through a lot. He is stationary. He’s got this suitcase that says, you know, displaced person. Nobody Anywhere. I will go anywhere. And unfortunately, in this moment, he can’t find a home.”
[15:35] Mehnaz: “The impact is what I’m after as an educator, as an academic and as a person.”
[22:20] Mark: “Canada did less than almost any other Western country to help Jewish refugees... only about 5,000 Jewish refugees entered Canada during that period.”
[26:56] Mark: “There’s a way that memory can... manipulate the past, can kind of COVID over darker parts of a country’s history.”
[31:22] Mark (paraphrasing Mehnaz): “If we want Holocaust education to reach areas where it is not studied... include in a genuine way, in a meaningful way, these places in the story.”
[35:25] Mehnaz: “It’s always been seen as a white Christian male study... and that has also given it a sort of closed door policy.”
[42:38] Mehnaz: “The problem is that the Holocaust is not necessarily denied in a lot of these narratives, but it’s relativized.”
[49:32] Mark: “The experience of Bliss reveals... the global scale of the Holocaust. Shows how the global community... became implicated in the Holocaust.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

[03:32] Guest Introductions and Academic Backstories
[08:28] About the Cover Art and Its Symbolism
[12:20] Editorial Goals & Educational Approach
[17:40] Discussion of the "History" Section—Immigration and Refugees
[24:17] Individual Figures vs. Structural Analysis
[29:41] Holocaust Education: Global Challenges and Opportunities
[36:44] Universal vs. Local Memory and Representation
[41:51] Definitional Tensions in Holocaust Studies
[42:20] Highlight: Chapter on Palestinian Perspectives
[45:56] Highlight: Australian Anti-Refugee Policy
[48:49] Story of Charles Bliss (Epilogue)
[54:05] Further Reading Suggestions
[58:06] Editors’ Ongoing and Upcoming Work

Mark Celinscak and Mehnaz Afridi, eds., "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation" (U Nebraska Press, 2025)

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Summary

Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation"

Episode Overview

Meet the Editors ([03:32])

Mark Celinscak's Academic Journey

Mehnaz Afridi's Academic Journey

The Book Cover: Symbolizing Displacement and Movement ([08:28–12:20])

Editorial Goals & Educational Impact ([12:20–17:40])

Aspirations for the Book ([13:08])

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refugee Movement and National Responses ([17:40–24:03])

2. History vs. Individual Agency ([24:17–27:50])

3. Global Holocaust Education: Challenges and Goals ([29:41–36:22])

4. Universal Themes vs. Local Memory ([36:44–41:51])

Notable Chapters & Memorable Moments

1. Palestinian Perspectives on Holocaust Education

2. Australia’s Anti-Refugee Agenda

3. Epilogue: The Story of Charles Bliss

4. Final Reflection: Representation and Existential Uncertainty

Suggested Further Reading & Teaching Materials ([54:05–58:06])

Mehnaz Afridi recommends:

Mark Celinscak recommends:

Closing Reflections and Ongoing Research ([58:06–end])

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Timestamps for Key Segments

Overall Tone & Takeaways

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "Global Approaches to the Holocaust: Memory, History and Representation"

Episode Overview

Meet the Editors ([03:32])

Mark Celinscak's Academic Journey

Mehnaz Afridi's Academic Journey

The Book Cover: Symbolizing Displacement and Movement ([08:28–12:20])

Editorial Goals & Educational Impact ([12:20–17:40])

Aspirations for the Book ([13:08])

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refugee Movement and National Responses ([17:40–24:03])

2. History vs. Individual Agency ([24:17–27:50])

3. Global Holocaust Education: Challenges and Goals ([29:41–36:22])

4. Universal Themes vs. Local Memory ([36:44–41:51])

Notable Chapters & Memorable Moments

1. Palestinian Perspectives on Holocaust Education

2. Australia’s Anti-Refugee Agenda

3. Epilogue: The Story of Charles Bliss

4. Final Reflection: Representation and Existential Uncertainty

Suggested Further Reading & Teaching Materials ([54:05–58:06])

Mehnaz Afridi recommends:

Mark Celinscak recommends:

Closing Reflections and Ongoing Research ([58:06–end])

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Timestamps for Key Segments

Overall Tone & Takeaways