Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Mark Deuze, "Well-Being and Creative Careers: What Makes You Happy Can Also Make You Sick"
Host: Pete Kunze
Guest: Mark Deuze, Professor of Media Studies, University of Amsterdam
Release Date: December 14, 2025

Overview

This episode delves into Mark Deuze’s new book, Well-Being and Creative Careers: What Makes You Happy Can Also Make You Sick (Intellect Books, 2025). The conversation focuses on the paradoxical relationship between passion and suffering in creative industries—especially media, journalism, film, games, and music—and explores the structural reasons these fields, despite their allure, are so frequently detrimental to well-being. The episode offers both critical analysis and examples of positive change, serving as a wake-up call and a source of hope for educators, students, and professionals alike.

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Mark Deuze’s Background and Path to the Project

• [02:24] Diverse Media Career: Deuze shares his journey from arts journalist in the Netherlands to international academia. Initially trained as a historian, he gravitated towards oral histories and archive research, then evolved into social science methods, working across multiple disciplines.

• [04:00] Unplanned Evolution: He describes "a series of unplanned circumstances" leading him from journalism into academia, with humility about his initial lack of academic theory training.

  "Literally half a year into the [PhD] program…my supervisor walked into my office, said so where’s your theoretical framework? And I said, theoretical what?"
  – Mark Deuze [04:13]

2. Origins and Motivation of the Book

• [05:33] University Crisis: The impetus for the book came from alarming statistics about student well-being at Deuze’s university, revealing severe rates of social isolation, loss of motivation, and substance abuse—despite highly desirable programs and environments.

• [07:30] Faculty Strikes and Systemic Discontent: Faculty strikes highlighted pressure, precarity, and widespread dissatisfaction beyond students.

• [08:20] Critical Realization: Deuze admits his own limited health literacy, inspiring him to re-examine two decades of interviews with media professionals through a well-being lens.

  "All those interviews were always about well-being. It’s just I never made that connection, nor did my interviewees, for that matter."
  – Mark Deuze [08:50]

• [10:30] Gap in Research: Outside of war journalism, there was little academic examination of creative/media industry professionals’ health and well-being.

  “There was a lot of literature on…toxic masculinity cultures in the workplace…precariousness. But the link with well-being was never made or just hinted at.”
  – Mark Deuze [10:55]

3. The Elusive Nature of Mental Health in Creative Work

• [11:48] Labor Studies’ Limitations: Host Pete Kunze notes the field’s lack of attention to the affective, everyday aspects of labor, especially related to mental health.

• [13:05] Disciplinary Gaps: Research rarely connects work conditions with health, in part because most scholars lack psychological or occupational health training.

  “…Most people in our field aren’t trained as psychologists, and especially not psychologists in fields of labor, occupational medicine…”
  – Mark Deuze [13:14]

• [15:30] Production Studies Youth: The field’s relative newness means these issues haven’t been fully explored.

  "Do we really want to know how the sausage gets made? Because the moment you know, you don’t want to eat it, right?”
  – Mark Deuze [16:09]

4. Paradox of Passion: What Makes You Happy Can Also Make You Sick

• [21:12] Passion vs. Despair: Professionals frequently say, “I can’t believe I’m paid to do this,” while simultaneously reporting their work harms their health.

• [22:30] Industry Culture: Media workplaces perpetuate the notion that if you can’t handle the pressure, you’re not cut out for it.

  "It’s a kind of a trope within the industry – ‘if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen’ kind of bullshit… Rather than actually, like, ‘hey, you want to talk about it?’"
  – Mark Deuze [22:45]

• [23:50] Systemic Burnout: Passion is not enough. The real issue is structural: high rates of turnover and diversity loss are universal because the system itself is unhealthy.

• [26:00] Occupational Medicine Model:

  • Lack of Reciprocity: Disproportion between what workers give and receive (pay, recognition, support).
  • Organizational Injustice: Lack of transparency, accountability, and fairness.
  • Workload–Autonomy Mismatch: High demands with low control or autonomy.

  "The outliers…the extremes in other economic sectors are at the heart of how media get managed…that in turn predicts that so many people fall by the wayside."
  – Mark Deuze [27:18]

5. Culture, Bullying, and Burnout

• [32:32] Toxic Workplaces: Despite the industry’s progressive self-image, media workers experience disproportionate rates of discrimination, harassment, and abuse, especially against marginalized groups.

  "So what turns all these people all of a sudden into the most disgusting bullies at work? Well, obviously, because the work is unhealthy, right?"
  – Mark Deuze [32:35]

6. Challenges in Addressing and Researching Exploitation

• [35:48] Emotional Literacy: Most people—workers and researchers alike—struggle to discuss or even recognize the emotional impact of their work.
• [37:00] Researcher Approach: Rather than direct questions about exploitation, Deuze advises nuanced questioning (e.g., “Can you give an example of where you gave everything to a project and still lost the client or job?”).
• [39:00] Even Occupational Medicine Just Caught Up: The field has only recently shifted to psychosocial risk, not just physical safety.

7. Taboo, Emotional Illiteracy, and Shifting the Conversation

• [42:18] Changing Tides: There is growing willingness to talk about these issues, notably at industry gatherings, not just among rank-and-file workers.

  “…Stigmatizing and tabooing conversations about health and well-being…has to do with feeling uncomfortable and not knowing how to talk about this.”
  – Mark Deuze [42:42]

• [44:20] Identity and Work: It’s hard to criticize something that’s entangled with personal identity.

  “I always said, ‘I am an actor.’…What I learned…was to say, ‘I am working as an actor.’ This is not who I am. This is what I do.”
  – (recounting Sam Neill) [45:09]

• [48:10] Industry Doesn’t Care: The industry as a system does not care for individuals—even though many people in it do.

  “The industry doesn’t care. It really doesn’t. It’s not designed that way. The system…if anything, is designed to make people sick and not by some evil schemers…”
  – Mark Deuze [49:48]

• [51:00] Recognition Resonates: Industry audiences resonate deeply with these analyses—some express gratitude after Deuze’s talks, saying “you just described my experience.”

8. Radical Hope: Transformation, Love, and Industry Change

• [53:45] Reason for Optimism:

  • The data and acknowledgement of the problem are themselves hopeful—“acknowledging you have a problem is halfway through solving it.”
  • There are many grassroots initiatives, collectives, and charities addressing media workers’ well-being; efforts at both individual resilience and sectoral change are growing.

• [56:50] Redirecting Passion for Change: The problem isn’t being too passionate about the end product, but channeling that passion into reforming workplace practices.

  “What if we redirect that passion towards changing the industry?”
  – Mark Deuze [58:18]

• [60:56] Practical First Steps: Start with leadership empathy, communication, and showing care.

  “Just checking in with people—like ‘How are you doing?’”
  – Mark Deuze [62:22]

  “When [media professionals] are asked what needs to change…the number one thing…is leadership…leaders that are more empathic, leaders that actually seem to care.”
  – Mark Deuze [62:57]

• [63:55] Leadership Paradox: New leaders face skepticism if they suddenly become empathetic—change is challenging, but possible.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On passion and systemic sickness:

  “The unique thing about professionals across all the media industries…is that…they’re just as likely to say, ‘I can’t believe I’m getting paid to do this’…as they are to say, ‘this work negatively impacts my health and wellbeing.’”
  – Mark Deuze [21:20]

• On emotional illiteracy:

  "People’s emotional literacy [tends] to be frighteningly low. Unless you’ve been to therapy, most of us don’t really understand the patent ways…we as bodies make sense of the world."
  – Mark Deuze [35:58]

• On separating identity and work:

  “…This thing that I do is who I am. And…what helped me coping…was to say, ‘I am working as an actor.’ This is not who I am. This is what I do.”
  – Sam Neill, recounted by Mark Deuze [45:09]

• On practical change in the industry:

  “Just checking in with people—like, ‘How are you doing?’…What I can do is at the beginning of a shoot, just do an individualized check-in: ‘What do people need to do their best possible work and how can I help?’”
  – Mark Deuze [62:22]

• On hope and collective action:

  “The ways of doing things differently are actually not rocket science…Normalize the conversation and strip it from stigma and taboo…You’re not crazy for struggling.”
  – Mark Deuze [60:56]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Mark Deuze’s Background and Academic Roots: [02:24–05:24]
• Genesis of the Book and Well-Being Crisis: [05:24–11:16]
• Paradox of Creative Labor: Love and Harm: [21:12–27:40]
• Occupational Health Models Applied to Media: [26:00–32:32]
• Industry Culture and Bullying: [32:32–33:44]
• Challenges Researching Exploitation: [35:48–41:16]
• Emotional Illiteracy and Changing Conversations: [42:18–52:55]
• Hope and Practical Solutions: [53:20–64:58]

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, evidence-driven, and ultimately hopeful exploration of the painful, paradoxical realities of creative careers in media and related fields. Deuze’s research pushes the conversation beyond just documenting suffering—he calls for redirecting passion not just into products, but into reforming the very systems that make careers both joyful and sickening. The book provides tools for understanding, discussing, and transforming creative work for the better.