Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Mark Mazower, "On Antisemitism: A Word in History" (Penguin Press, 2025)
Host: Roland Clark
Guest: Mark Mazower, Ira D. Wallach Professor of History, Columbia University
Date: October 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features historian Mark Mazower discussing his forthcoming book, On Antisemitism: A Word in History. The conversation explores the evolving meanings, political uses, and historical transformations of the term “antisemitism” from its 19th-century origins to its current implications in global politics and campus debates—particularly relating to Israel and the shifting centers of Jewish life. The discussion is richly historical while addressing the urgency and confusion surrounding the term in recent years.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Write This Book? (01:44–03:35)

• Prompted by Recent Events: Mazower explains he was driven by his experiences teaching at Columbia University during and after the October 7, 2023 incident and the subsequent campus encampments, where public accusations and debates around antisemitism reached a dramatic, confusing peak.

• Personal Shift: Growing up in London, antisemitism meant something different—“Skinheads, National Front… had nothing to do with Israel” (02:15). Recent U.S. debates are deeply intertwined with Israel.

  “I was genuinely interested intellectually in how this shift had taken place... what I was used to thinking about was being coalesced into concerns about politics in the Middle East.” —Mark Mazower (02:08)

2. Origins and Early Evolution of Antisemitism (03:35–08:49)

• Historical Starting Point: The term “antisemitism” is traced specifically to the late 19th century (1870s), differentiated from older, religiously motivated anti-Judaism.

• Modern Antisemitism: Emerges with mass politics and the drive to influence laws and national enfranchisement.

  • Anti-Semites, as a self-identifying group, sought to block Jewish political emancipation.

• Cross-national Differences: Antisemitism in Germany (racialized), France (Catholic dimension), Russia (Orthodox ties), each reflected local religious, cultural, and political contexts.

• Rapid Internationalization: Both antisemitic and Jewish organizations quickly understood the need for international cooperation and mobilization.

  “What was new was to... provide it as the basis for a political program. And that political program was the program of ensuring Jews were not enfranchised.”
  —Mark Mazower (05:10)

3. The Impact of Nazi Germany and WWII (08:49–11:56)

• Hitler’s Adoption: The Nazis inherit and radicalize the 19th-century political antisemitism, treating the “Jewish question” as world-historical.

  • Most Germans were willing to accept Nazi policies for other reasons; Nazi leadership's obsessive focus made antisemitism central to state policy and war.

• Postwar Transformation: The genocidal culmination of Nazi antisemitism resulted in a major moral and political delegitimization of organized political antisemitism in Western Europe. Prejudices endured, but open mobilization lost legitimacy.

  “You cannot henceforward, if you are an ambitious politician, hope to get anywhere putting yourself forward as an anti-Semite.”
  —Mark Mazower (10:59)

4. Antisemitism in the Soviet Bloc (11:56–13:40)

• Soviet Dichotomy: The Soviets did not officially allow antisemitism, but it re-emerged postwar under the coded banner of “anti-Zionism.” Show trials and purges used anti-Zionism as a proxy for old prejudices.

  “There is an anti-Semitic politics, but it calls itself by a different name... anti-Zionism.”
  —Mark Mazower (12:59)

5. American Jews and Demographic Shifts (13:40–17:41)

• Migration’s Consequence: By 2025, only about 10% of Jews live in Europe; the overwhelming majority are in the U.S. and Israel.

• American Context: Antisemitism, negligible in U.S. politics pre-20th century, rose during the interwar period (notably via Ford, the Protocols, discriminatory housing/employment).

• Civil Rights Era: Jewish organizations in the U.S. fought for civil rights in alliance with black groups, aligning anti-racism with anti-antisemitism. This alliance was effective but not without tensions.

  “They see [racism] as a threat to democracy... and mobilize and work together very effectively in the 1950s and early 1960s.”
  —Mark Mazower (18:35)

6. The Fragility and Breakdown of Black–Jewish Coalitions (17:41–23:24)

• Complex Coalitions: Despite effective cooperation, the Black-Jewish alliance was always uneven, due to differing levels of disadvantage and internal prejudices.

• Breakdown Causes: The relationship fractured over strategies post-civil rights victories, generational shifts, and emerging disagreements over race labels and federal monitoring.

  “Jewish groups, American Jewish groups by and large are reluctant to be singled out in this way... 25 years later they're going to have a change of heart.”
  —Mark Mazower (21:58)

7. Zionism, Israel, and Shifting Allegiances (23:49–28:10)

• Israeli-American Jewish Tensions: Israeli leaders (e.g., Ben Gurion) were frustrated American Jews didn’t emigrate, fearing that open allegiance to Israel would fuel American antisemitic accusations.

• Redefinition of Zionism: Over time, being a Zionist for American Jews shifted from intending to emigrate to Israel, to supporting Israel from the U.S.—a major change in meaning.

  "A kind of war of words breaks out... A new understanding of what Zionism means... in the American context, it means to support Israel."
  —Mark Mazower (26:32)

8. Arab Antisemitism and Changing Perceptions (28:10–30:26)

• Early Zionists’ Views: Early Zionist leaders saw Arab opposition to Israel as normal geopolitical conflict, not antisemitic. Only later did ‘Arab antisemitism’ become a trope in Israeli and Western rhetoric.

  “Early Zionists have a strong belief... you will normalize Jewish life and antisemitism will go away.”
  —Mark Mazower (29:10)

9. The United Nations and "Antisemitism" (30:26–32:35)

• UN Criticism: By the 1970s, Israeli politicians characterized the UN as "a racist anti-Semitic organization" due to increasing Third World/Palestinian solidarity.
• Shift in Usage: These developments tied antisemitism to international criticism of Israel, which correlates with a general American-Israeli estrangement from the UN.

10. The "New Antisemitism" in America (32:35–37:34)

• Paradox of Success and Anxiety: Despite socioeconomic advances and less prejudice, Jewish organizations escalated claims of rising antisemitism from the 1980s onward.

• Organizational Incentives: Established groups like the ADL began to argue that anti-Israel animus (especially from the left) was the new form of antisemitism as direct discrimination dwindled.

  "That's the moment at which the concept drifts over and starts to take the shape that we know it to have today."
  —Mark Mazower (36:54)

11. The IHRA Definition: What Went Wrong? (37:34–42:15)

• Definition as Politics: The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) definition of antisemitism was promoted to international bodies, not for its accuracy, but its utility in blurring lines between anti-Israel speech and antisemitism.

• Consequences: Mazower argues the definition confuses more than clarifies, stifling legitimate speech, and arose from strategic lobbying by advocacy groups rather than grassroots agreement.

  "This definition is worse than useless... people are encouraged to avoid the subject for fear they are going to be accused of antisemitism." —Mark Mazower (39:35)

12. Is Antisemitism in 2025 the Same Word as in 1870? (42:15–43:51)

• Semantic Drift: The term now encompasses divergent and sometimes contradictory meanings—old racial/ethnic prejudices alongside allegations tied to criticism of Israeli policy.

• Call for Clarity: Understanding the word’s historical transformations is key to unraveling the present confusion.

  “We're in a confused mess. How we get out of it, I don't know. But I think the first step is understanding what's been going on.” —Mark Mazower (43:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Antisemitism was fairly clear what it meant to us growing up [in London in the 1970s]. … At Columbia in 2023, it appeared to have everything to do with Israel.”
  —Mark Mazower (02:15)

• “What was new was to provide it as the basis for a political program. … That is the beginning of the term.”
  —Mark Mazower (05:10)

• “There is an anti Semitic politics, but it calls itself by a different name. They use the code word anti Zionism.”
  —Mark Mazower (12:59)

• “The American Jewish Committee’s campaign… pushes towards coalition with black civil rights groups…The relationship was never straightforward.”
  —Mark Mazower (17:43)

• “One of the obligations of being an American Jew is to support Israel. And that’s a real shift in what it means.”
  —Mark Mazower (27:25)

• “The sponsors of [IHRA] did not give up. They found an ostensibly neutral body… and now… the consequences of it have become clear.”
  —Mark Mazower (41:24)

• “We are in this confused mess. How we get out of it, I don’t know. But I think the first step to getting out of it is understanding what’s been going on.”
  —Mark Mazower (43:32)

Suggested Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|---------------| | Why Write the Book? | 01:44–03:35 | | Defining Modern Antisemitism | 03:35–08:49 | | Nazi Germany and WWII | 08:49–11:56 | | Soviet Union and "Anti-Zionism" | 11:56–13:40 | | American Jewish Demographics | 13:40–17:41 | | Black–Jewish Coalitions & Breakdown | 17:41–23:24 | | American vs. Israeli Jewish Identity | 23:49–28:10 | | The Trope of Arab Antisemitism | 28:10–30:26 | | UN and International Antisemitism | 30:26–32:35 | | The "New Antisemitism" in the U.S. | 32:35–37:34 | | IHRA and the Danger of Definitions | 37:34–42:15 | | Are We Even Fighting the Same Monster? | 42:15–43:51 |

Conclusion

Mazower’s interview reveals how thoroughly the meanings and uses of “antisemitism” have shifted over the past 150 years. Originally emerging as a term for a political movement against Jewish emancipation in Europe, its definition and usage have gradually expanded and transformed—now encompassing disputes over Israel, international diplomacy, and the paradoxes of multicultural American identity. The episode stands as an erudite, timely exploration for all seeking historical clarity in the age of fraught debate around antisemitism.