Podcast Summary: Mark Seligman, "AI and Ada: Artificial Translation and Creation of Literature"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Ibrahim Fauzi
Guest: Mark Seligman
Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Ibrahim Fauzi interviews linguist and AI researcher Mark Seligman about his new book, AI and Ada: Artificial Translation and Creation of Literature (First Hill Books, 2025). The discussion delves into the implications of the AI revolution on literature, translation, and creativity, placing these issues in the context of broader technological transformations. Seligman reflects on the idea of a "great transition" between Humanity 1.0 and 2.0, and what it will mean for our understanding of art, language, and intelligence.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Great Technological Transition – Humanity 1.0 to 2.0

[02:35-07:52]

• Seligman frames today's AI revolution alongside historical technological upheavals: the atomic bomb, DNA, spaceflight, communications, and computational advances.
• Personal reflections on living through these changes and feeling both shock and balance:
  • "One reaction to the firsthand experience ... is shock at the immensity of the real change ... But there's another and maybe countervailing kind of perspective ... that despite the real shocks, life goes on." – Mark Seligman [04:00]
• Compares adapting to change to "the frog that has been boiled by degrees," emphasizing that even when change is immense, it can creep up unnoticed.
• Warns against complacency but encourages measured optimism: "Maybe just curb your panic ... If you're lucky enough to have the necessary distance." [06:51]
• Quotes Yogi Berra: "It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future." [07:54]
• Holds onto hope and balance, despite acknowledging existential risks (nuclear war, AI, etc.).

Nabokov and Literary Translation as Optimization

[08:19-11:26]

• Seligman explains why Nabokov's hyper-literal approach to translation became central in the book:
  • Nabokov’s translation of Eugene Onegin as a lens to discuss the impossibility of a complete transfer of meaning, style, and form in any translation.
• Introduces the idea of translation as "an optimization problem":
  • "The suggestion to view translation as an optimization problem ... became the trigger for the essay's main initial result." [09:45]
• Chose Nabokov for his "hyperconscious style," bilingual brilliance, and intrinsic self-awareness, making him an ideal case study.

Can AI Match Human Sensitivity in Translation and Creation?

[11:26-15:33]

• AI could potentially learn to make nuanced trade-offs in translation by training on expert examples—but whether it can develop real sensitivity remains open.
• Raises possibility of giving AIs human-like emotions and motivations through reverse engineering—a “possible but distant road.”
• Summarizes current progress:
  • "I do expect that this road will in fact be traveled eventually ... but I also doubt that it's wise to try giving AIs human like emotions and motivations in the near term." [14:22]
• References experiments in neural modeling (Edelman, Grossberg).

Perceptual Grounding and Understanding

[17:22-22:08]

• Differences between textually grounded and perceptually grounded AI translation:
  • Without perceptual grounding, programs only have “perception free semantics.”
• Discusses John Searle’s Chinese Room thought experiment:
  • Suggests that true understanding may arise more from pattern recognition and abstract prediction than from sensory grounding alone.
  • "Schemes seem to be important so that the recognition stage can be compared to parsing of grammatical patterns..." [20:48]
• For profoundly sensuous literary tasks, richer, perceptual grounding could enrich AI’s results—but is not strictly required for all tasks.

The Artificial Nabokov and the Nature of Genius

[22:08-26:34]

• Outlines what an artificial Nabokov might look like:
  • Programs could plausibly imitate many of Nabokov’s narrative techniques, but would lack his felt, intrinsic emotion.
  • Compares current AIs to "technical actors" versus "method actors":
    • "For now at least, they cannot feel what he felt, even if they can pretend to..." [23:25]
    • "What is available now is Laurence Olivier, not Dustin Hoffman." [24:33]
• Raises the prospect that “real” emotion is necessary for profundity in creation, while technique/analysis suffices only for imitation/translation.

Human Uniqueness, Artistry, and Dignity in the Age of AI

[25:12-28:36]

• If machines duplicate intricacy, does it threaten human uniqueness?
  • Uses the John Henry parable to illustrate shifting notions of dignity:
    • "I think we're in for a lot of reassessment of human dignity and where it comes from, its sources." [26:22]
• Responds to critics who see LLMs as simulating rather than demonstrating intelligence:
  • "Smart is as smart does ... If an entity uses choices ... to reach goals effectively ... it's intelligent by this definition." [27:05]
  • Intelligence is separate from consciousness or sentience, and both people and machines can be highly able in some areas, clueless in others.

Memory, Identity, Emotion, and True Artistry

[28:36-31:33]

• Current limits: LLMs lack deep memory, genuine identity, and true feeling.
• Considers whether vicarious or simulated experience could ever substitute for real-world experience in shaping identity.
• Recalls films like Her, AI (Pinocchio motif), and The Truman Show as cultural meditations on simulated identity.
• Concludes: "True emotion, real experience, are after all, crucial for an identity that supports true artistry as we know it." [31:19]

Will Artificial Emotion Arrive Soon—And Should We Fear Replacement?

[31:33-33:49]

• Seligman is a materialist, expects progress in reverse-engineering emotion:
  • "I wouldn't be surprised to see them taking shape in my lifetime, that is, within a couple more decades." [32:22]
• On replacement:
  • Jobs (including literary translators, writers) will be changed, many replaced outright or shifted into human-AI collaborations.
  • "I worry more ... about the employment and the displacement problem rather than the evil robot taking over the world..." [33:15]

Is AI-Generated Literature Really “Art”?

[33:49-34:39]

• When AI produces moving art, the burden of proof will fall to those denying its status as "art".
  • "The distinction between humans and augmented humans and human like non humans is going to diminish over time..." [33:57]
  • Compares to current resistance against AI “intelligence”—likely to wane as technology advances.

What Would Nabokov Say?

[34:25-36:59]

• Nabokov would likely reject the possibility of genuine art by AI, viewing it as spiritually and philosophically impossible.
  • "To conceive that an act which is so sacred could be achieved by an assembly of dead switches ... would be ... inherently absurd and self-contradictory and deluded." [35:04]
  • Seligman suggests Nabokov would dismiss AI-driven art as a “skillful magic trick” at best.
  • Memorable comparison: “For Nabokov, the deluded critics and we ... are like a hypnotized subject making love to a chair.” [36:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On technological change:
  "It's just a hell of a Disneyland ride and an E ticket." – Mark Seligman [05:45]

• On AI and translation:
  "Translation as an optimization problem ... became the trigger for the essay's main initial result." – Mark Seligman [09:45]

• On the limits of AI artistry:
  "What is available now is Laurence Olivier, not Dustin Hoffman." – Mark Seligman [24:33]

• On intelligence:
  "Smart is as smart does." – Mark Seligman [27:05]

• On the future of art:
  "...the distinction between humans and augmented humans and human like non humans is going to diminish over time." – Mark Seligman [33:57]

• On Nabokov's — and humanity's — faith in art:
  "Art is to play the game that the unseen and unknowable creators themselves play ... to create art is to ... apprentice creation itself." – Mark Seligman, paraphrasing Nabokov [35:20]

• Nabokov's likely verdict:
  "For Nabokov, the deluded critics and we deluded AI worshipers are like a hypnotized subject making love to a chair." – Mark Seligman [36:38]

Segment Timestamps

• [01:20] – Introduction
• [02:06-07:52] – Seligman’s Perspective on Historic Technological Change
• [08:19-11:26] – Why Nabokov? Literary Translation as Optimization
• [11:26-15:33] – Translation, Trade-offs, AI’s Potential and Limits
• [17:22-22:08] – Perceptual Grounding and Understanding
• [22:08-26:34] – Artificial Nabokov: Can AI Recreate Genius?
• [26:34-28:36] – Human Uniqueness, Dignity, and AI Intelligence
• [28:36-31:33] – Memory, Identity, and Artistry in LLMs
• [31:33-33:49] – Artificial Emotion and Human Replacement
• [33:49-34:39] – Is AI Art “Art”?
• [34:39-36:59] – Nabokov’s Hypothetical Reaction
• [36:59] – Conclusion/Sign-off

Tone and Language

The conversation is reflective, sometimes playful, and deeply analytical—mirroring the intricate style of Nabokov himself and the deliberate, thoughtful voice of Seligman. The interview frequently references literary figures, philosophical conundrums, and pop-cultural touchstones (from Bertolt Brecht to Forrest Gump, from South Pacific to sci-fi films) to make abstract points accessible and vivid.

For Listeners New to the Topic

This episode offers a comprehensive, accessible, and intellectually stimulating exploration of the future of AI in creative literary arts. Mark Seligman situates the conversation within history, argues for both caution and hope, and repeatedly returns to the core question: Can true artistry, meaning, and emotion ever be simulated—or will the human spark always remain unique? The answer, for now: It's complicated, and the story isn’t over.