Episode Summary: Martin Jay on "Immanent Critiques: The Frankfurt School under Pressure" (New Books Network, 12/30/25)
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Ryan Tripp
Guest: Martin Jay, Professor Emeritus of History, UC Berkeley
Book Discussed: Immanent Critiques: The Frankfurt School under Pressure (Verso, 2023)
Duration: Content Time ~78 min
Theme: Martin Jay reflects on his recent collection, exploring internal tensions and critical debates within the Frankfurt School tradition, including the mechanics of immanent critique, Eurocentrism, aesthetics, antisemitism, pathologization in politics, and the evolution of critical theory.
Main Theme and Purpose
This episode offers a rich conversation with historian Martin Jay about his book Immanent Critiques, which examines enduring debates and self-questionings inside the Frankfurt School. Jay discusses how these "immanent critiques" both animate and problematize the tradition, responding to historic and contemporary pressures such as Eurocentrism, shifting political landscapes, postcolonial theory, and the deft interplay between critique and self-reflection.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Immanent vs. Transcendent Critique in Critical Theory
[02:30 – 11:39]
- Definitions:
- Immanent critique: Critique based on inherent values and professed ideals of a society or tradition, revealing gaps between ideals and practice.
- Transcendent critique: Critique based on external, universal, or eternal standards (justice, equality, etc.), critiquing society from "outside".
- Frankfurt School’s Struggle: The tradition wrestled with finding a legitimate critical standpoint—should critique be grounded in local, contextual values (immanent), or in timeless ethical ideals (transcendent)?
- Negative Dialectic:
"There is a negative dialectic of transcendent and immanent critique, one that understands the inadequacy of each and also the difficulty, if not impossibility, of combining them in a seamless way."
— Martin Jay [10:17] - Performative Contradiction: When critique undermines the very standards it uses (e.g., reasoned arguments for why reasoning is suspect).
2. Expanded Field, Historical Narrative, and Eurocentrism
[11:39 – 20:18]
- Expanded Field: Influenced by Walter Benjamin’s dialectical images—resists linear, single-hero history in favor of fragmented, constellation-like narratives that include present-day concerns.
- Decentering Eurocentrism: The forced emigration of Frankfurt School theorists and the expansion of critical theory globally challenge Eurocentric bias, but influence remains asymmetrical:
"The expansion of critical theory is one which will decenter it from its origins. This is ultimately a healthy thing."
— Martin Jay [15:55] - Engagement with Other Traditions: Acknowledgment of productive dialogues with post-structuralism and international critical theory, moving past old oppositions.
3. Aesthetic Sublimation, Authenticity, and Colonial Legacies
[20:18 – 29:06]
- Adorno’s Notion of Sublimation:
- Against Freudian reduction: Adorno criticized the taming of critical energy in Freudian aesthetic theory.
- Posterior Aesthetic Sublimation: Objects (such as ritual or religious art) and artifacts from colonized peoples, when placed in an aesthetic context, gain new meanings that transcend their original function.
- Critique of Authenticity:
"He’s very much opposed to the ideology of authenticity. Works that can be re-described in aesthetic terms show their ability to be decontextualized, to transcend their original context."
— Martin Jay [27:20] - Ethnographic Art: While acknowledging colonial violence in the appropriation of artifacts, Adorno supports the idea that recontextualization can be a form of aesthetic and critical preservation.
4. Jewish Responsibility, Antisemitism, and Psychoanalysis
[29:06 – 40:06]
- Blaming the Victim: Analyzes the problematic logic behind attributing responsibility to Jews for their persecution.
- Nuanced Arguments: Freud, Erikson, Adorno, and Arendt offer competing views:
- Freud: Jews introduced the "jealous God,” prompting resentment.
- Erikson: Jewish group perseverance envied by Germans.
- Adorno: Jews as scapegoats linked to capitalist resentment.
- Arendt: Critique of Jews' "political deficit" but objection to Israeli ethno-politics.
- Distinction:
"...what they alert us to is the extremely awkward and difficult issue...why there is some sort of abiding hostility to Jews which may involve their own agency...but may involve a kind of, let's call it explanatory responsibility..."
— Martin Jay [39:10]
5. The Authoritarian Personality—Pathologizing Politics
[40:06 – 48:25]
- The Authoritarian Personality Study:
- Method: Social science and psychoanalysis to classify "Mac" (authoritarian) and "Larry" (non-authoritarian).
- Critique: Applying these models across cultures (e.g., China) is problematic; pathologizing creates a false norm.
- Danger of Pathologizing Opponents:
"The pathologization of our opponents makes it very difficult to have a legitimate democratic discussion with them."
— Martin Jay [47:57] - Democracy and Deliberation: Pathologizing undermines the possibility of real engagement across divides.
6. Racket Society – Political Culture in Film and Reality
[48:25 – 53:52]
- Scorsese's The Irishman (2019) & Racket Society:
- Comparison with On the Waterfront: Whereas the earlier film depicts individuals overcoming corruption, The Irishman shows omnipresent racketeering.
- Frankfurt School’s Theory: Racket society as a breakdown of universalism, replaced by clan-like loyalty/protection structures.
- Current Political Parallels:
"...we're now at a very vulnerable moment in which the rule of law...is being challenged by the regressive racketeering model of loyalty and dependence based on powerful figures, warlords, we might say, like Trump..."
— Martin Jay [52:23]
7. Walter Benjamin, Theological Materialism, and Jameson's Interpretation
[53:52 – 62:52]
- Jameson’s Benjamin Files: Attempt to harmonize Benjamin’s utopian theology and historical materialism.
- Critique:
- Overemphasis on redemptive hope risks denying irredeemable suffering.
- Benjamin’s nostalgia for cosmic harmony contrasts Jameson’s figural approach (history as prefiguration).
"I don't think that Jameson gives us a satisfactory defense of Benjamin's theological claims here in trying to reconcile them with the reality of the historical materialism..."
— Martin Jay [57:15]
8. Living and Corpse—Leib and Körper—Politics of Mortality
[62:52 – 71:20]
- Leib/Körper Distinction:
- Leib: Living, subjective, feeling body.
- Körper: Objectified, inert, the body-as-corpse.
- Political Application:
- Cautions against romanticizing agency and neglecting human vulnerability.
- Necropolitics:
- Critiques logic justifying sacrifice of some for the "greater health" of the community.
"There is always, you might say, a ‘them’ in us. There is a dead body, a kerper in our lib..."
— Martin Jay [66:12]
9. Truth, Politics, and the Pharmakon of Lying
[71:20 – 78:34]
- Reification of Truth in Marx and Badiou:
- Worries about treating singular political truth as attainable and persecuting dissent.
- Draws on Arendt and the idea that politics is a realm of opinion, values—not absolute truths.
- Pharmakon Metaphor:
"The pharmakon model is helpful because it tells us that when a big lie is told, such as the lie that the Maga Trumpites tell us about the so called rigged election of 2020, this is dangerous to the nth degree. That's not the same thing as lots of small lies and half truths."
— Martin Jay [74:58] - Pluralism and Critique: The danger lies both in “big lies” and in traffic in absolute truth.
10. Upcoming Book: Magical Nominalism
[78:52 – 80:50]
- Project Scope:
- Tracks a tradition positing the resistance and wonder of singular, irreducible particulars—neither pure universals nor vacuous contingency.
- Contexts: Benjamin’s "theology of the name", poststructuralist "event", Goodman’s "irrealism", Adorno on music, Barthes and Krakauer on photography.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the negative dialectic:
"Critical theory...is dependent on historically variable sources of critical energy. And I think that's one of the valuable lessons of the history of the theory."
— Martin Jay [10:33] -
On Eurocentrism and expansion:
"... a consortium which Judith Butler basically began to organize at Berkeley many years ago, which includes something like 500 different critical theory groups around the world. And this shows the extent to which critical theory has no longer, you know, been confined to Europe and America."
— Martin Jay [15:24] -
On aesthetic recontextualization:
"...re-description can be a form of aesthetic and critical preservation."
— Paraphrased from [27:37] -
On the dangers of big truth in politics:
"...both the big lie and the ideal of big truth seem to me deeply...anathema to the political pluralism and the openness to what we might call the realm of opinion and the realm of value and the realm of worldview that makes politics an endless process of negotiation..."
— Martin Jay [77:35]
Important Timestamps by Topic
- Immanent/Transcendent Critique: [02:30 – 11:39]
- Expanded Field & Eurocentrism: [11:39 – 20:18]
- Aesthetic Sublimation & Authenticity: [20:18 – 29:06]
- Jewish Responsibility & Antisemitism: [29:06 – 40:06]
- Authoritarian Personality & Pathologization: [40:06 – 48:25]
- Racket Society & Political Culture: [48:25 – 53:52]
- Benjamin, Theology, and Jameson: [53:52 – 62:52]
- Leib/Körper & Necropolitics: [62:52 – 71:20]
- Truth, Politics, Lying: [71:20 – 78:34]
- Magical Nominalism Preview: [78:52 – 80:50]
Final Notes
This episode is dense with theory and historical exegesis, offering listeners a tour de force on the stakes and self-reflexivity of critical theory. Jay balances close theoretical reading with engagement on contemporary issues (Trumpism, global critical theory, Israel/Palestine), often returning to the hard limits, tensions, and dangers facing both critique and the institutions that practice it. The conversation is candid, accessible to those familiar with the Frankfurt School, and illuminating for newcomers curious about the inner debates that keep critical theory alive.