Podcast Summary: New Books Network — Interview with Meg Groff on "Not If I Can Help It" (Rivertown Books, 2025)

Episode Overview
In this episode of New Books Network (aired November 12, 2025), host Rebecca Buchanan speaks with Meg Groff, veteran legal aid attorney and author of the memoir Not If I Can Help It. The conversation delves into Groff’s decades-long career representing survivors of domestic violence and the poor in family courts, the enduring systemic challenges facing clients and advocates, and her aim to ignite change and awareness through storytelling. Central themes include the realities of legal aid work, family and child custody law, and the personal toll and inspiration driving advocacy.

Main Themes & Episode Structure

• 00:00–01:52: [Skipped – Ads and Network Intro]
• 01:52–02:05: Introduction: Host Rebecca Buchanan introduces Meg Groff and her memoir.
• 02:05–05:13: Groff’s motivation for writing the book and a brief overview.
• 05:13–08:29: Meg's personal journey to becoming a legal aid attorney.
• 08:29–11:04: Selection of cases for the book; the process and emotional resonance.
• 11:04–20:29: Systemic issues: evolution and limits of domestic violence laws, family court hurdles.
• 20:29–26:24: The intersection of poverty, family courts, and the harsh practicalities of justice.
• 26:24–34:36: Memorable stories from Groff’s career and the personal cost of advocacy.
• 34:36–36:50: Groff’s current activism: nationwide custody law reform efforts.
• 36:50–37:03: Closing remarks.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Write Not If I Can Help It?

• Purpose: Groff describes her memoir as a means to "educate people, but also to inspire... and maybe to enrage people to some extent and engage them." (02:14)
• Structure: Each chapter is centered on a specific case from her legal career—"Each chapter is really a story about one of my cases, basically." (02:45)
• Accessibility: She deliberately wrote the book in accessible language to reach a broad audience.

2. Groff’s Path to Legal Aid Law

• Unconventional Journey: Groff dropped out of high school, married young, and lived a countercultural life before returning to education in her 30s—highlighting, “I was a late bloomer for sure… we were hippies, had a daughter right away and we were just living without electricity, running water.” (05:34)
• Pivotal Moment: An encounter with a battered woman inspired Groff to pursue the law—"I just thought, if I ever graduate college, I'm going to become a lawyer and I'm going to represent people like her." (07:38)
• Mission-driven Practice: Groff prioritized making legal representation accessible: “Legal aid doesn't charge low income people… I went to law school with the intention of trying to being a lawyer that people could afford.” (03:41)

3. Legal Aid and the Realities of Family Court

• Chronic Underfunding: “There’s not enough legal aid attorneys, there’s not enough funding… Only certain people get… representation.” (04:16)
• Intensity of Work: “Caseload was very, very large. …I was the only person doing it. And the people are there and they need help, so, you know, you just have to keep doing it.” (09:59)
• Barriers for Clients: Poverty, transportation, fear, and lack of understanding about the legal process are pervasive obstacles.

4. Persistent Patterns in Domestic Violence and Custody Law

• Little Progress in 40+ Years: “Many of the things you talk about have not changed much in like 40 plus years.” (10:26)
• Changing Laws vs. Changing Attitudes: Groff traces improvements, such as the Protection from Abuse Act, but laments inconsistency and resistance among judges—“If you come in… with obvious abuses… you’re going to get a protection order. But…without those things, it’s often not that easy.” (12:54)
• Gender Biases in Custody Cases:
  • “It’s much easier for a man to show that he’s a good parent because not much is expected of men… Women are supposed to be doing everything and doing it well. And if they don’t, in any instance… they are very much discredited.” (15:27)
  • Abusers using custody battles as a form of continued control.

5. The Lived Experience of Clients in Poverty

• Complexity Beyond Courtroom Dramas:

  • Clients face logistical, financial, and social barriers—“It’s not a simple thing at all. And people are always saying, why didn’t you leave? …There’s so many reasons why people don’t leave.” (21:30)
  • The expectation for mothers to leave abusers is often impractical and dangerous.

• Poverty and “Neglect”:

  • “Neglect is more of a reason that children are taken into foster care… than abuse is because actually, in our country, we are allowed to abuse our children.” (24:05)
  • Economic hardship is often criminalized while actual abuse can be overlooked, particularly among wealthier families.

• Lack of Representation: The absence of affordable legal counsel leaves poor clients extremely vulnerable.

6. Memorable Cases and Client Stories

The Case of the 13-year-old Rape Survivor (26:41–30:39)

• Story: A girl, raped at 13, forced to relinquish her child to family in the South. Years later, the rapist seeks parental rights.
• Systemic Failure: “The judge thought that, you know, he had no real concerns about it… he was upset when I said the word rape in court.” (28:53)
• Advocacy in Action: Groff threatened appeal and educated the court, obtaining only supervised visits which the abuser never pursued.
• Emotional Impact: “She and her daughter sent me letter every year on the anniversary of the hearing. So she’s very memorable to me.” (30:32)

7. Personal Toll and Advice for Advocates

• On Safety and Self-Care: Groff reflects candidly—“I just took the position that I was going to protect my client… I know that I often was in danger.” (31:15)
• Workplace Safety: Facing death threats and the challenge of recruiting staff willing to risk personal safety.
• Protecting Clients: Sometimes necessitating creative actions and personal risk—"I had arranged to have my client not go [to court] because I really thought that he would kill her on steps. And I really didn't know if he would kill me." (31:57)

8. Writing Process and Legal Storytelling

• Approach: “I always treated [cases] like stories. I thought rather than… be very legalistic… I would say, here’s the story. This is a true story.” (33:18)
• Selection of Cases: Decision was “haphazard”—cases that stuck with her emotionally or illustrated key issues. Hints at future volumes to cover emerging problems like the misuse of claims of parental alienation to undermine abuse accusers.

9. Ongoing Activism: Custody Law Reform

• Cadence Law Movement:
  • Advocating for child safety to be the primary concern in custody decisions.
  • “The thing that’s important is the safety of the child. Not that this preconceived idea about what is good for them.” (35:37)
• National Effort: Campaigning state-by-state for legislative change, spearheaded by organizations like the National Family Violence Law Center at George Washington and National Safe Parents Organization.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Impact of Law and Attitude Changes:
  • “There has been change, but there still needs to be more change. Some of the thing about protection from [abuse] is just attitudes and understanding of domestic violence on the part of judges and on the part of people that are informing judges in general about how to make decisions.” — Meg Groff (14:05)
• On Advocating in Court:
  • “I always tried to educate judges and make them afraid. I did my best to do those two things.” — Meg Groff on pushing back against judicial complacency (29:53)
• On Systemic Failure:
  • “Victims of domestic violence are the only victims who, if they have children with their assailants, are forced to have ongoing, consistent contact with them and are judged by how friendly they are when they’re doing it.” — Meg Groff (18:16)
• On Law and Poverty:
  • “If half the money that was being spent for this day could be given to the parents, we could have solved some of the problems.” (24:18)
• On Self-Care and Professional Risk:
  • “We have to live with ourselves whether we live or die.” — Meg Groff (32:26)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:05] – Why Meg Groff wrote the book and her approach to storytelling
• [05:34] – Personal journey to law and pivotal client encounter
• [11:04] – Systemic issues in domestic violence cases and differing state laws
• [15:27] – Gender bias in family court and ongoing trends
• [21:30] – Obstacles facing poor clients in family court and systemic neglect
• [26:41] – Story of the 13-year-old rape survivor and legal battle over parental rights
• [31:15] – Professional danger and self-care for advocates
• [34:51] – Custody law reform: Cadence Law and national advocacy

Episode Takeaways

• Not If I Can Help It exposes enduring injustices in the American legal system, especially surrounding domestic abuse and poverty.
• Groff’s stories highlight both the resilience and vulnerability of her clients, and the system’s frequent failure to protect them.
• Her book is a call to reform—through changing laws, court attitudes, and public understanding.
• Groff's ongoing activism exemplifies the fight for systemic change in the interest of child and survivor safety.
• The conversation’s tone is direct, pragmatic, and empathetic, rich with lived experience and a drive for justice.

For further information, Groff’s book and her legal insights provide not only moving personal accounts but also practical advice and a blueprint for reform—highly recommended for anyone concerned with justice, advocacy, and domestic violence law.