Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Michael D. Dwyer, "Tinsel and Rust: How Hollywood Manufactured the Rust Belt" (Oxford UP, 2025)
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Corey Barker
Guest: Michael D. Dwyer (Associate Professor, Arcadia University)

Episode Overview

This episode of New Books in Media and Communication features Michael D. Dwyer discussing his book, Tinsel and Rust: How Hollywood Manufactured the Rust Belt. The conversation explores how Hollywood has shaped and circulated the cultural idea of the Rust Belt, the interplay between economic, geographic, and symbolic definitions of the term, and how film and media industries have affected both the perception and economic fate of Rust Belt cities. Dwyer and Barker analyze the historical, racial, and political impacts of deindustrialization, popular media narratives, and the consequences for places like Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and more.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael D. Dwyer’s Research Journey

• (02:12–06:38)

  • Dwyer describes his path from a marine science/physics major to cultural and film studies, highlighting the accidental nature of his shift.

  • Finds his passion in understanding how history, politics, and stories intersect, leading him to write about nostalgia and later about the Rust Belt.

    Quote:

    “I just decided I will be a film person. ... And a series of mistakes and, like, accidents wound, like, brought me to that class. And then I just knew right away ... every lecture was so awesome.” — Michael D. Dwyer (03:45)

2. Defining the Rust Belt: Geography versus Symbolism

• (07:22–11:37)

  • Dwyer discusses the difficulty of pinning down where and what the Rust Belt is, arguing it’s more cultural than strictly geographic.

  • Attempts to map the Rust Belt by state or city borders are unsatisfying; it’s an “imagined” idea that emerged in the 1980s to symbolize American decline.

  • The idea’s importance in political narratives (e.g., post-2016 election) often outweighs demographic or economic realities.

    Quote:

    “The Rust Belt is really a cultural concept ... these narratives of decline and malaise ... are present even today in our political discourse.” — Michael D. Dwyer (10:06)

3. Origin of the Term and Political Rhetoric

• (11:53–14:36)

  • Recalls the term's evocation by Walter Mondale (not Dukakis) as "Rust Bowl", paralleling the Dust Bowl.

  • Traces the shift from "arsenal of democracy" to "Rust Belt" and discusses how Hollywood reflected and helped form this transformation.

    Quote:

    “The same places they referred to as the Rust Belt were called different things at different times ... They came to serve this role as a symbol of malaise or rot or decline.” — Michael D. Dwyer (10:06)

4. Hollywood’s Role: Manufacturing and Reflecting the Rust Belt

• (15:18–20:12)

  • The subtitle "How Hollywood Manufactured the Rust Belt" captures how films trained audiences to associate specific visual and narrative cues with decay and decline.

  • Hollywood's depictions reinforce, contest, and circulate images of decline, sometimes becoming central to national discourse.

  • Hollywood’s own industrial practices mirrored the economic processes of deindustrialization, moving productions for cost savings and tax incentives, similar to factory flight.

    Quote:

    “Deindustrialization is an economic process. But the Rust Belt is really a cultural concept. And one of the ways this ... has ... become central ... is through filmic representations.” — Michael D. Dwyer (15:34)

    Film Example:

    “You can think about ... the opening to The Blues Brothers ... just the visual language ... you show the steel mill and automatically we know we're talking about decline.” — Michael D. Dwyer (15:49)

5. Runaway Productions: Economic and Political Parallels

• (20:12–25:34)

  • Hollywood's search for lower costs and tax breaks echoes the exodus of manufacturing; often cities incentivize production to boost their economies.

  • Dwyer outlines the complex (often negative) consequences for local tax bases—studios benefit while cities can lose vital revenue.

  • Discusses recent examples (Atlanta, Vancouver) where Hollywood’s movement has had similar destabilizing effects as earlier factory flight.

    Quote:

    “These tax incentives are transferable ... not only not making, you're not collecting taxes on the expenditures for the film production, you're actually lowering the taxes you're getting from the gas company or whatever.” — Michael D. Dwyer (22:24)

6. Case Studies: City Chapters and Selection Rationale

• (29:43–35:41)

  • Dwyer details his choice of Johnstown, Cleveland, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Detroit—each embodies distinct historical, demographic, or cinematic features.

  • Explains why certain cities (e.g., Buffalo, Philadelphia, Milwaukee) were omitted: fewer relevant productions, or different symbolic status.

    Quote:

    “Chicago ... avoided the association with decline that St. Cleveland got. Cleveland became a joke, and Chicago is just a great American city.” — Michael D. Dwyer (33:23)

7. The Concept and Process of “Rusting”

• (36:02–41:04)

  • “Rusting” describes the simultaneous economic, demographic, and symbolic transformation of a place.

  • Many films depict rusting as a natural or inevitable process, which obscures the agency of companies and political actors who dismantled industries for profit.

    Quote:

    “To say these places rusted ... fails to acknowledge the agency of the companies that intentionally planned to dismantle these industries ...” — Michael D. Dwyer (39:23)

8. Race, Segregation, and Who Gets Blamed or “Saved”

• (41:46–46:51)

  • Dwyer underscores the multiracial, multiethnic histories of industrial workforces, and the disproportionate negative impacts of deindustrialization on communities of color.

  • Housing segregation and environmental racism played key roles; media often reframes economic transformations as “race problems”.

    Quote:

    “You can see deindustrialization happening ... in a film like Cooley High ... but it's understood nationally as a race problem rather than an economic transformation.” — Michael D. Dwyer (44:08)

9. Detroit on Film: Horror, Absence, and Precarity

• (49:04–57:34)

  • In the post-Great Recession era, Detroit becomes the ultimate symbol of urban decline and “precarity”—explored through a wave of horror/thriller films.

  • Dwyer notes the conspicuous absence of Black characters in films set in a majority-Black city, reading these films as expressions of white anxieties about the spreading impacts of economic decay and racialized political neglect.

  • He connects the pervasive insecurity in these stories to broader American sociology and politics.

    Quote:

    “It’s almost as if these films articulate ... this terror in white America that the monster of capital is coming for it. It's already come for black people ... but it's also coming for us now.” — Michael D. Dwyer (53:34)

10. Cleveland: The Butt of the Joke

• (57:45–64:51)

  • Cleveland’s status as “Mistake by the Lake” stems from a series of unlucky high-profile media events and local figures, amplified by comedy shows and sports failure.

  • The city symbolizes loss and is a source of local resentment but has also sought to reverse this reputation by wooing blockbusters.

    Quote:

    “You want to be identified as the best location in the nation and then you become referred to as the mistake by the lake.” — Michael D. Dwyer (63:25)

11. Changing Representations and Persistent Stereotypes

• (65:26–68:46)

  • Dwyer identifies a shift from a media narrative that mourned the loss of industry to one that dismisses the Rust Belt as the haunt of “diner-dwelling white working class men.”

  • Contemporary reality is more diverse; the present working class looks vastly different from its 1980s image.

  • Pop politics and media continue to recycle narrow, misleading stereotypes, stymieing productive conversations about the region’s true challenges.

    Quote:

    “Our image of the working class has not caught up with what the working class looks like now ... the working class now, in these Rust Belt cities, is a person of color who works in healthcare ...” — Michael D. Dwyer (67:42)

12. Looking Forward

• (69:10–71:51)
  • Dwyer is currently enjoying a break from major projects but is interested in expanding his research into international or smaller-scale “rusting” processes, and potentially mapping French director Agnès Varda’s Paris.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Hollywood’s Role:

  “Deindustrialization is an economic process. But the Rust Belt is really a cultural concept. And one of the ways this ... has ... become central ... is through filmic representations.”
  — Michael D. Dwyer (15:34)

• On Defining the Rust Belt:

  "The Rust Belt is a cultural idea ... it emerges in the 1980s ... they came to serve this role as a symbol of malaise or rot or decline."
  — Michael D. Dwyer (10:06)

• On Industrial Parallels:

  "The broad dynamics ... are essentially a recurrence of the same process in which factories were established ... damaging their environment, breaking people's bodies ... when it was no longer financially advantageous ... they took off and left."
  — Michael D. Dwyer (25:46)

• On Race and Deindustrialization:

  “You can see deindustrialization happening ... but it's understood nationally as a race problem rather than an economic transformation.”
  — Michael D. Dwyer (44:08)

• On Cleveland’s Reputation:

  "You want to be identified as the best location in the nation and then you become referred to as the mistake by the lake."
  — Michael D. Dwyer (63:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dwyer's Research Path & Academic Background – 02:00–06:38
• Defining the Rust Belt – 07:22–11:37
• Origins & Political Rhetoric – 11:53–14:36
• Hollywood’s Role & Film Examples – 15:18–20:12
• Economic/Political Parallels with Deindustrialization – 20:12–25:34
• City Chapters & Case Study Rationale – 29:43–35:41
• Process of “Rusting” & Symbolic Change – 36:02–41:04
• Race/Racism, Economic Impact & Representation – 41:46–46:51
• Detroit as Horror Symbol & Precarity – 49:04–57:34
• The Cleveland Joke – 57:45–64:51
• Shifts in Stereotypes Over Time – 65:26–68:46
• Future Directions – 69:10–71:51

Memorable Moments

• The discussion on how industrial decline became Hollywood shorthand for American malaise, and how quickly this became foundational to pop culture.
• Dwyer's critique of the “rusting” metaphor, emphasizing corporate and political agency—"to say these places rusted ... fails to acknowledge the agency of the companies that intentionally planned to dismantle these industries..." (39:23)
• The crash course on why Cleveland in particular became a comedic punching bag, from political accidents to environmental disasters, and the city’s efforts to reclaim its image (57:45–64:51).
• The examination of recent horror films (e.g., It Follows, Don’t Breathe) set in Detroit, and their metaphorical engagement with insecurity, race, and deindustrialization (53:34–55:26).
• Dwyer’s cautious hope for new, more inclusive narratives about the region and the working class.

Tone and Language

Throughout, the exchange is conversational, thoughtful, and often wry. Dwyer blends accessible, story-driven explanation with academic insights but isn’t afraid to inject winking self-awareness or humor.

Example:

"[Let’s] end it at a worse place. That's good." (57:40, Dwyer joking about not ending the show with his best articulation)

Concluding Thoughts

This episode provides a rich, accessible synthesis of history, media analysis, and regional identity, revealing how Hollywood both mirrors and manufactures the symbolic status of the Rust Belt. Dwyer’s arguments are a call for more nuanced thinking about the Rust Belt’s meanings, and a reminder of the real people—often far removed from Hollywood cliché—whose stories deserve deeper, more varied representation.