Michael Kardos, "Fun City Heist" (Severn House, 2025)

Summary

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New Books Network – Episode Summary

Episode: Interview with Michael Kardos, Fun City Heist (Severn House, 2025)
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: G.P. Gottlieb
Guest: Michael Kardos

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of the New Books Network, hosted by G.P. Gottlieb, delves into Michael Kardos’s new novel, Fun City Heist. The book follows Mo, a washed-up, forty-something drummer who’s lured into reuniting his old band for one last “gig”—the real motive being a high-stakes robbery orchestrated by the band’s dying lead singer. Together, Kardos and Gottlieb discuss the novel’s origins in Jersey Shore nostalgia, its colorful characters, the musician’s life, and what happens when faded dreams resurface. The conversation pulls back the curtain on the allure and disappointment of modest success, the particularities of place, and the enduring pull of music and friendship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Jersey Shore Setting: Memory and Fiction

• Kardos grew up near the Jersey Shore and worked summers at a beachfront amusement park, experiences that inspired the book’s setting in the fictional “Quartz Beach, Ocean County.”
  • Kardos: “It was a very particular setting at a very particular time. ... For whatever reason, I don’t know why, this one just kind of stuck.” (02:23–03:03)
• The Shore is depicted more as a local, suburban town that happened to have a beach, not a tourist hotspot.
  • Kardos: “They didn’t really think of themselves much as a tourist place. It was very much sort of a local place that happened to have a beach.” (05:13)

Mo as the Protagonist: Musician, Drifter, and Dreamer

• Mo is an aging drummer who, after a modestly successful stint with his band “Sunshine Apocalypse,” ends up renting chairs on the beach for minimum wage.
  • Gottlieb: “What’s going on with him, aside from, as he says, poor quote, I found a way to sit on the beach and get paid for it?” (06:21)
• Kardos reflects on the liminality of being just-successful-enough, and how it can leave a person stuck between identities and ambitions.
  • Kardos: “He achieved just enough success to really be kind of stuck. … I always wondered, what happened … if you had some, you know, by any measure, some success, okay, but now … what do you do with the rest of your life?” (06:48–09:40)

The Band Life: Fact and Fiction

• Kardos draws upon personal experience, describing nights playing in empty clubs and reflecting on how fleeting and financially insecure modest musical success can be.
  • Kardos: “We played mostly in the 90s… you end up playing for the soundman and the bartenders who aren’t even paying attention..." (08:04)
• The tension between possible stardom and ordinary life runs through the novel and its band of characters.

Mo's Musicality & Perfect Pitch

• Mo possesses perfect pitch, a trait rare in drummers, which colors the way he perceives his environment—finding music everywhere.
  • Gottlieb: “A drummer with perfect pitch is like a blue whale who can count cards.” (11:43)
  • Kardos: “Perfect pitch is a strange thing ... I have perfect pitch ... It varies, but I think Mo has it pretty good.” (12:06)
• Discussion about the quirks and challenges of perfect pitch, including how certain sounds can be a curse, not a blessing.
  • Gottlieb: “You can’t sit through a mediocre performance where the players are slightly off pitch.” (12:49)

The Heist Plot & Band Reunion

• The inciting event: Johnny Clay, Mo’s frontman and childhood friend, returns asking the band to help him pull off a robbery. The pretense: Johnny is dying and needs treatment money.
  • Kardos: “Mo and Johnny are… like brothers ... they know how to manipulate each other ... Johnny’s the front man ... he knows how to run the show.” (13:20)
• The reunion triggers both nostalgia and new conflicts, but musically, “it comes back,” even after decades apart.
  • Kardos: “If I were to get back together now with guys I played with 25 years ago... it wouldn’t take more than a couple practices to sound pretty okay.” (18:14)

Mo’s Daughter, Janice: Parenthood and Change

• Janice, the daughter Mo hardly knows, unexpectedly enters his life, pushing him toward responsibility he has long avoided.
  • Kardos: “For the first time in his life, he has this, this girl, his daughter, who he actually has to get to know as a person and take on some kind of a parental role which he is unfit for and, but has increasing interest in...” (14:29)

Character Flaws and Growth

• Mo begins the novel as self-centered and passive, but undergoes growth, evolving from “schlub to mensch.”
  • Kardos: “He's not an evil guy. He's not a mean guy. I think he's good-hearted ... In a way, Mo ... is, at least in the first chunk of the novel, not especially reflective.” (15:43)

Moral Questions Behind the Heist

• Discussion about why Mo agrees to participate in this morally questionable venture.
  • Kardos: “He hems and haws a little at first. … Johnny gives him a pretty compelling reason ... it's a way to get the band back together and that’s worth something.” (17:22)

The Role of Music in Kardos’s Writing

• Musical themes and musician characters recur in Kardos’s fiction. Even in non-musical books, music seeps in.
  • Kardos: “It’s helpful at least to have something I know about, you know, and something I don’t have to go reaching for.” (20:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On his setting:
  • “It’s like the Jersey Shore in my brain...” — Michael Kardos (03:53)
• On success and stasis:
  • “He achieved just enough success to really be kind of stuck.” — Michael Kardos (06:48)
• On musical quirks:
  • “A drummer with perfect pitch is like a blue whale who can count cards.” — G.P. Gottlieb (11:43)
• On perfect pitch as curse:
  • “You can’t sit through a mediocre performance where the players are slightly off pitch.” — G.P. Gottlieb (12:49)
• On friendship:
  • “They know what gets under each other’s skin. They know how to manipulate each other.” — Michael Kardos (13:20)
• On character change:
  • “If we were to chart his path over the course of the book, I think we can go from schlub to mensch.” — Michael Kardos (15:43)

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Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:20–02:09 | Introduction and book premise | | 02:09–05:29 | Setting inspiration: Jersey Shore and “Quartz Beach” | | 06:21–07:37 | Protagonist Mo’s circumstance and inner story | | 07:37–09:52 | The band’s faded glory; Kardos’s real experiences | | 11:33–12:49 | Mo’s perfect pitch; funny musicality observations | | 13:02–14:20 | Johnny Clay, the “frontman” and Mo’s relationship | | 14:20–15:26 | Janice, Mo’s daughter and the surprise parental role | | 15:26–16:50 | Mo’s egocentrism, character analysis, and growth | | 17:22–18:07 | Moral stakes: why Mo agrees to the heist | | 18:07–19:00 | The band reunion—plausibility and musical memory | | 19:20–21:14 | Kardos’s future projects and music in his fiction |

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Closing Thoughts

The episode paints Fun City Heist as a wise, witty heist novel—with a heart—rooted in the culture and landscapes of coastal New Jersey, and in the relatable dilemmas of faded dreams, second chances, and the unromantic reality of aging. Kardos brings warmth, dry humor, and genuine affection to his characters and their hazards, making this interview an engaging, insightful listen, especially for anyone who’s ever loved a song, a seedy club, or a wild idea.

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Transcript

[Michael Cardos]

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[G.P. Gottlieb]

Together.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Michael Cardos]

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[Michael Cardos]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

Get ready for one last adventure.

[Michael Cardos]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[G.P. Gottlieb]

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[Michael Cardos]

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[Advertiser/Host]

Welcome to the New Books Network.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

I'm kicking back on a Saturday afternoon, the seagulls singing C sharp. When a shadow falls across my face. And a voice I haven't heard for 12 years says my name, Mo. Followed by advice I didn't ask for. You gotta start wearing sunscreen. This is GP Gottlieb, host for New Books and Literature, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. And today I'm talking to Michael Cardos about his newest novel, Fun City Heist. It's about a 40 something aging drummer who gets talked into pulling the old band together for a final gig. The gig is a cover for the one time Big Robbery the band's old singer convinces them to do. He's sick and dying, he tells them and needs the money for his treatment. Hi Michael, thanks for joining me today.

[Michael Cardos]

Thank you, Galit. It's nice to meet you.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So I read that you grew up near the Jersey shore and have memories of summer fun. Was there a single incident that inspired the idea for Fun City Heist?

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah, pretty much. So I do. I grew up a couple miles from the beach, the shore in New Jersey. And when I was in high school, I worked at a beachfront amusement park. So in the boardwalk, had a haunted house, haunted mansion, and had a little mini theme park. And that setting became a place where years later I found myself writing about a lot in some short stories in, you know, a couple of different, longer ideas. It just. It was a very particular setting at a very particular time. And so I had tried to write some rock band stuff before because I have some experience with that playing the drums. And when I was in graduate school, I tried writing a band novel that half worked, half didn't work, but some of the basic ideas stuck with me really, for decades. And so during COVID I started writing this, got this kind of new idea, but I knew right away I wanted to set it on the boardwalk in New Jersey surrounding this haunted mansion and this amusement park. And just kind of, for whatever reason, I don't know why, this one just kind of stuck. And I was able to keep it going and finish it. Okay.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

I've never been to the Jersey Shore, nor have I seen any related television shows about it, but it's close to your heart. Can you talk about the Jersey Shore, the geography of it, especially the place you call Quartz Beach, Ocean country, New Jersey.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah, Quartz Beach, Ocean county or Earth. Yeah. I actually grew up in Monmouth county, which is the county a little bit to the north of Ocean County. So I think one thing about place, certainly in fiction, when you're trying to write about a place where you grew up. I mean, I haven't lived in New Jersey in more than 20 years, and so. And I certainly wasn't a kid in New Jersey for a lot longer than that. And I think that in a way, it becomes a fictionalized place, even as. As. As, like, I try to make it a real place. Like, it becomes a sort of filtered through years and. And changes. And so it's not. Even though I tried to write it realistically, it becomes its own place. So it's like the Jersey Shore in my brain, you know, but it is particular. It's the one thing I think that was notable about it that is different from other beach towns that you might visit or go as a tourist, is that, at least when I was growing up there, it was more like we were a little suburban town that happened to abut an ocean, as opposed to being a beach town that was. They kind of knew it was a tourist destination, if that makes sense.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

No, I don't understand what you mean.

[Michael Cardos]

I guess, I guess what I'm saying is they didn't really know how to do tourism very well.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Okay, so it was a bad tourist.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, like, for instance, there was no parking. So. You know what I mean? Like, so there. There were things it didn't. They didn't really think of themselves much as a tourist place. It was very much sort of a local place that happened to have a beach.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Pretty funny.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah. And, and, but. But it's a very particular spot. It was, in a way, a suburb of New York City because it was only an hour drive or an hour train ride, but it was kind of rural in spots. It was definitely suburban New Jersey. I didn't know until I left New Jersey at the age of 30 that you could have. You could be in a place that isn't a town, like in New Jersey where I lived. You lived in one town, and you keep driving, and you enter the next town, you keep driving, you enter the next town. But the only way, you know, you go from one town to another is because there's a road sign telling you that you've entered the new town. And it wasn't until I went to grad school in Ohio, which is a lot more rural, but you would leave a town and then just be in nowhere. And until you get to the next town. So there's a lot of suburban sprawl. It was just, you know, everywhere is particular. But that was, I guess, my particular. Yeah.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So Mo, your protagonist, is a talented drummer, and his band achieved a modicum of success. But for the past decade or so, Mo's just getting by with minimum wage. What's going on with him, Aside from, as he says, poor quote, I found a way to sit on the beach and get paid for it.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah. I think in. In certainly in stories, right, the main character has to tell themselves a story in order to get up in the morning. Right. So his. So his story is.

[Advertiser/Host]

He.

[Michael Cardos]

He was a musician. He achieved just enough success to really be kind of stuck. Like it. He. He achieved more success than I had achieved. I achieved enough success where it was really easy to go back to grad school. Cause I knew I wasn't walking. I knew I wasn't walking away from too much, But I always wondered, well, what happened? In a way, for me, it was a good thing I did. I wasn't more successful as. Because that could have been really been a much harder decision. And so I think with Mo and his bandmates, they got just enough success that they will always miss it or they will always feel like, oh, one more, one more. Yes, could have made a huge difference. Right. So I think he feels very much stuck, but I think he's also convinced himself that he found the easy, amazing sort of secret to life, which is, you know, to get paid minimum wage and be on the beach and rent beach umbrellas and chairs to the tourists.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So Mo drinks a lot. At times, he also lies easily, but when he's lying in bed alone, he faces the truth. Like that. Sunshine Apocalypse. The band had a few successes, but ended up playing in second rate festivals and clubs on their nights off. Can you talk about the band and since you have some real life experience with it, can you talk about your musicianship and how it played in this story?

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah, I have a lot of experience playing bad clubs, so, boy, those scenes came very naturally. You know, I. We played mostly in the 90s, which I'm imagining this band had its heyday, you know, around there, maybe a little bit later. But yeah, I definitely have had experiences where you drag all of your equipment into New York and set up and you end up playing for the soundman and the bartenders who aren't even paying attention, you know, that kind of thing. And so I think that those guys had some success, but the thing about success is it can be really fast and fleeting and also make you no money. And I think that's what happened to them is that they had, you know, they were on the radio sometimes for a couple of months and then that was it and they got some regional success and there was always the possibility of more and I think they had the talent for more. But there's so much that goes into play there and so much that goes into the luck of, of who you happen to open for and what club do you happen to play and who you happen to get reviewed by and, and whether you're doing the thing at the moment in time that people want to hear. And there's all of that stuff. And so they had, look, they had a lot more success than probably most bands, but. But what do you do with the rest of your life? And in a way, that was the question that I was most curious about was even if you had some, you know, by any measure, some success, okay, but now you're. However old they, you know, they. Now they're 35, what do you do when you, what do you, you have a lot of years to go. What happens now?

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Hopefully you have a lot of years to go.

[Michael Cardos]

Hopefully, right? Hopefully you have a lot of years to go. But what do you do with that stretch of time and what do you do with the rest of your life? And, and, and I think that's all, all the guys in the band, all they knew since they were 14 was, was playing in the band.

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[G.P. Gottlieb]

Yeah, well, we all knew lots of people like that, especially musicians. So I love this quote of yours. A drummer with perfect pitch is like a blue whale who can count cards.

[Michael Cardos]

Ah.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So Mo hears musical notes everywhere, from the seagulls screaming be natural. To the celestial E flat major seventh chord, which has the effect of shifting the current's direction. Or my favorite, when the police station's vending machine plays an E flat and the air conditioner plays an A. That would bother me too, I admit it.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah. And we talked before this, that you're also a musician and. Right. And I'm a drummer. But also, you know, it. Perfect pitch is a strange thing. And anyone who has it knows that it's not. You know, you can. You can. It can be better or worse. And like, I have perfect pitch. And if you play a note on the piano, I'll know what it is right away. But if you play it on, like, guitar, it takes me a minute but, like, my nephew is amazing. You just name. You can play four messy notes anywhere on any instrument. He'll know what they are. Right. So it, It. It varies, but I think Mo has it pretty good. And I just. Yeah, I love that scene in the police station where they can't figure out why this particular room drives people crazy. And Mo's like, well, it's a tritone.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

But also, you know, it could be a curse, too, because the friends I do, the colleagues I knew who had perfect pitch, like, you can't sit through a mediocre performance where the players are slightly off pitch.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah. It becomes physically uncomfortable.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So the action of the book is triggered when Johnny Clay shows up with the idea of reuniting the guys and robbing the beach fair. He and Mo were childhood friends. Can you say something about Johnny and their relationship?

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah, Mo and Johnny are. I don't. There's not a word for it exactly, but they are like brothers. They are like best friends. They started a band together and they have this bond that's just not quite like any of those things. At times it's closer. At times it's more distant. It gives them reasons to bicker, I guess, in a way, it's more sibling, like, maybe than anything else. But there's a real. You know, they know each other really, really well. And that can be a great thing or a terrible thing because they know what gets under each other's skin. They know how to manipulate each other. And especially, I think part of what their dynamic is is that Johnny's the front man and he knows how to be a front man, which means that he's. He knows how to run the show. And Mo is somebody who has the drummer who, you know, takes typically the backseat and isn't running the show. And Johnny certainly knows that and is able to kind of manipulate things.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Yeah, that sounds like just about right. And then there's Mo's strange teenage daughter, Janice, who shows up at his door. What's going on there?

[Michael Cardos]

So, yeah, he has this daughter that he exists because he briefly dated this woman who was a fan of the band, and then, you know, she had the baby and moved off to Ohio. And so Mo only sees them on their beach vacations when they come out for a year. So he knows this girl growing up from a couple of days a year and has been told that he is not to participate in the upbringing. So he's kept his distance. And they have a friendly or cordial relationship. But this, when the novel takes place, she's out for the summer, working on her own, staying with a friend. And so that doesn't work out and they end up spending a lot of time together. And so really for the first time in his life, he has this, this girl, his daughter, who he actually has to get to know as a person and take on some kind of a. Some kind of a parental role which he is unfit for and, but has increasing interest in over the course of the book.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

He strikes me, correct me if I'm wrong, just he's kind of egocentric. He doesn't care about making the world a better place, about doing anything for the less fortunate. He just lives his days sitting on the beach. Can you say more about him? Anything else positive?

[Michael Cardos]

I think, I think. Let's see. If we were to chart his path over the course of the book, I think we can go from schlub to mensch. Right. I mean, I think that he's, he's. Yes, I think exactly what you say. I think he, he's not an evil guy. He's not a mean gu. I think he's good hearted, but I don't think he gives a lot of thought. I think he has convinced himself that it's totally important for his survival not to give too many things too much thought. And in a way this is, it's kind of a personality. You know, talking about writers that I, that I've read over the years who I kind of admire or at least take some, take some of what they do to heart, I'm thinking about like Nick Hornby's characters where they are, they're reflective, let me think. But they're analytical, but they're not reflective, if that makes sense. Where it's like they're really perceptive about the things around them and trying to make sense of events in the world, but they're not especially reflective. And I think in a way, Mo, at least in the first chunk of the novel, is that way.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Yeah, I really love characters who do something for other people who care about the world in some way. And he starts to really. We're not going to get into the details about the heist they're planning, but Mo is a good guy and so the others are sort of. I don't know, except maybe Johnny. But why doesn't Mo hesitate to plan this robbery that involves stealing other people's money?

[Michael Cardos]

Well, let's see. He hems and haws a little at first, I think, again, I think Mo has inertia going either for him or against him. It's easier to not rob a place than it is to rob it. But I think, you know, Johnny gives him a pretty compelling reason to do it. And he. You know, I think what Johnny convinces them of is that Johnny. Johnny kind of makes them all see that they are all living a little bit of a lie, that they're. That none of them are content. And, you know, shoot, this is. You know, it's illegal, and you could end up in some serious trouble, but it would be kind of exciting. And also, it's a way to get the band back together and. And that's worth something, so.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

And the band does come back together and they actually find that they sound good. How possible is that?

[Michael Cardos]

Oh, it's totally. It's totally possible. I mean, they sound bad at first, but. No, I think it's totally possible. These are. These are, you know, at a baseline, they are legit musicians who played together for a couple of decades before they split. So I. I don't. You know, I'm trying to think of myself, like, if I were to get back together now with guys I played with 25 years ago, and we were to try to play songs we played 25 years ago, I don't think it would take more than a couple practices to sound pretty okay. You know, we're not playing. We're not playing incredibly intricate stuff. You know, if we're just playing. Playing some. Some rock songs, it wouldn't take long.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Okay, well, I. I guess I. I don't know enough about rock songs to know that that would be. But it makes sense because the chordal structure and the.

[Michael Cardos]

Yeah, it comes back. You know, it's not the Fantasy Impromptu, you know, like, it comes back.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So it was an adorable book. Just, like, fun. I sat down, didn't get up till I finished, and it was just adorable. So thank you. I look forward to. What else are you writing? What's happening next for you?

[Michael Cardos]

Oh, boy. Okay, so I have a story collection that's coming out in 2026, and my first book was a story collection. I think it was in 2010 or 2011. And so these are really stories that some of them I've written a long time ago. Some of them I've written much more recently. And so it's with the same publisher that did the book way back when. So that's been really fun just to kind of collect some stories and have a new collection forthcoming. But most of the work on that's already done. And then I'm at the really early stages of a new novel, which who knows even how whether. What that will be. So that's that. But that's kind of the very beginning stages of one thing and the very end stages of another thing.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

Is this the only novel you've put musician in or is this a thing you do every time?

[Michael Cardos]

Well, this is the only novel that really centers the music and the band, but there's pretty much music in everything. Because I feel like, especially with a novel, there's so many things you have to invent and so many things you have to research and so many things that have to fit together. It's helpful at least to have something I know about, you know, and something I don't have to go reaching for. And so, yeah, like, I think there's always, well, the first novel involved. It wasn't so much about a band, but was almost like a locked room thing where it took place in the, in a recording studio. There was a kidnapping. And like, and you think about if you're going to kidnap somebody, where, where are you going to put them? And nothing would be better than a recording studio because it's soundproof and there's no windows and you don't know if it's day or night. So this is just practical advice I'm giving anyone. And then so, so there was at least there was like the trappings of music stuff in that one. And then in the next novel there wasn't much music in it. But it just so happened the dad in the story had a garage band. So there are a couple scenes with them playing really bad music in the garage. So it usually finds a way to creep in there.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

So fun. So anyway, Michael Kargos, thank you for joining me. It's been a pleasure. I look forward to your next books.

[Michael Cardos]

Thank you. It's been absolute pleasure, Galit, and just thanks for having me on.

[G.P. Gottlieb]

And thank you for joining me again. This is G.P. gottlieb, author of the Whipped and Sipped Mystery series and host for New Books and Literature, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. Today I've been talking to author Michael Cardos about his charming new novel, Fun City Heist. Hope you all have something charming or someone charming to cuddle up with today. And always happy reading.