Podcast Summary
Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Michael Staunton, "Thomas Becket and His World" (Reaktion Books, 2025)
Host: Morteza Hajizadeh
Guest: Dr. Michael Staunton, Professor of Medieval History, University College Dublin
Date: December 10, 2025
Overview
This episode features an in-depth interview with Dr. Michael Staunton about his latest book, "Thomas Becket and His World", published as part of Reaktion's Medieval Lives series. Dr. Staunton examines not just the remarkable and dramatic life of Thomas Becket, but also the broader and turbulent 12th-century context in which Becket lived and acted. The conversation goes beyond the famous narrative of Becket’s death and martyrdom, exploring his social origins, the intensity and partisanship of contemporary sources, and the enduring fascination with his legacy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Another Becket Biography?
-
Dr. Staunton combines his two main research interests: Becket and biography.
-
The book’s aim is to situate Becket within the "rapidly changing world" of 12th-century England, seeing him as both a product and a protagonist of his era.
-
Unlike standard biographies, Staunton emphasizes the world Becket inhabited—social, economic, religious, and intellectual.
"The story of Thomas Becket is both an interesting story in itself... But it also gives us a way into England and Europe at a time of really dramatic change."
—Michael Staunton [06:37]
2. The Problem of Partisanship in Sources
-
Nearly all medieval biographies were partisan; there was no expectation of objectivity.
-
The era generated an abundance of materials: at least 10 Becket biographies were written within a decade of his death, plus letters, chronicles, and royal documents.
-
Writers at the time tried to address both the hagiographic needs of the age and popular knowledge that Becket was controversial, which creates a more nuanced portrait.
"They are his cheerleaders. They are promoting him...but we have so many sources, we can pick through them to see, okay, what's most believable here. What here is the writers trying to lead us in some way."
—Michael Staunton [11:40]
3. King Henry II vs. Thomas Becket: A Complex Relationship
Was it Personal, Ideological, Institutional—or All Three?
-
Becket, from a London merchant background, was a symbol of new social mobility in the 12th century.
-
Henry II was motivated by a sense of grievance and drive for royal authority; Becket ascended via merit, not nobility.
-
Becket and Henry collaborated initially, but tensions arose when Becket became Archbishop—what Henry hoped would be a compliant ally became a churchman defending ecclesiastical autonomy.
-
Their conflict was a mix of personality, power, and rapidly changing institutional alignments: the monarchy’s centralization vs. the growing influence of papal authority.
"There was probably bound to be some kind of a clash there, but it was the personal element that sparked it and made it so divisive."
—Michael Staunton [16:38]"The kingdom simply isn’t big enough for both of them."
—Michael Staunton, quoting a contemporary biographer [17:39]
Close Friends, or Romanticization?
- Enjoyed a productive working relationship; popular depictions overstate their intimacy.
- Henry picked Becket for Archbishop for political, not spiritual, reasons.
- The depth of the personal bond is likely exaggerated by later writers and cinema.
4. The London Origins: Social Mobility & Urban Influence
-
Becket’s London upbringing was formative—London was a cosmopolitan, urban, commercial hub.
-
His family’s declining fortunes spurred ambition; his background set Becket apart from the nobility-heavy ecclesiastical class.
-
Biographer William Fitzstephen opens not with Becket’s birth but with an evocative portrait of London, illustrating its influence.
"London is not big enough to contain Thomas."
—Michael Staunton [23:58], citing a hagiographical omen
5. Conversion: From Chancellor to Archbishop
-
Becket’s shift is described as both political and spiritual—biographers frame it as conversion, although change was gradual.
-
Once Archbishop, Becket asserted church rights, clashing with Henry over jurisdiction, especially the punishment of clergy (church vs. royal courts).
-
12th-century developments (codifying canon law, rise of common law) made compromise difficult—each man represented rising forces in church and secular governance.
"He started to believe that, well, now I'm head of the English Church, I must stand up for its rights."
—Michael Staunton [30:18]
6. Exile and International Ramifications
-
Becket’s resistance led to a dramatic trial and exile in France.
-
His exile internationalized the conflict: France’s King saw advantage in supporting Becket; the Pope tried to mediate but had his own political calculations.
-
The quarrel escalated through letters, diplomacy, and propaganda across Europe, amplifying Becket’s symbolic authority as a persecuted exile.
"The Becker dispute involves people well beyond England. Thomas was in exile for six years and he was murdered a month after his return to England."
—Michael Staunton [39:40]
7. Martyrdom and Its Aftermath
Did Becket Seek Martyrdom?
- He postured as a martyr but probably didn’t seek death, even if he took provocative actions.
- His final excommunications helped precipitate the fatal crisis.
Papacy’s Role
- The Pope alternately supported and restrained Becket; ultimately, papal-issued authority for excommunication played into Becket’s hands.
Henry II’s Responsibility & The Murder’s Circumstances
-
Henry’s infamous outburst provoked but did not directly order the murder.
-
Four knights, interpreting Henry’s rage as license, traveled to Canterbury and killed Becket in the cathedral (December 29, 1170).
-
The incident was a profound shock; Henry undertook public penance amid an ensuing political crisis.
"Henry eventually accepted...he bore culpability for his angry and rash words which provoked the murder. I've given you an impression already that this is a very legalistic world, and that's a very legalistic formula..."
—Michael Staunton [52:31]
8. Canonization & Legacy
-
Spontaneous veneration began immediately; miracles were reported at Becket's tomb.
-
Becket was canonized in just two years—an extremely rapid process, reflecting the groundswell of popular and political pressure.
"...the papacy better get its act together and recognize this because it’s the voice of the people and that's unstoppable."
—Michael Staunton [61:34] -
The cult of Becket was initially a point of resistance to Henry’s regime, but over time, Becket was co-opted into the English royal symbolism:
- Henry performed public penance at Becket’s tomb, appropriating Becket’s cult.
- Becket’s memory shifted from radical to “miracle-working English saint,” safer and less oppositional to royal power.
9. Why Becket’s Enduring Fascination?
-
The compelling drama: friendship, betrayal, murder, martyrdom.
-
Reflection of broader ideological shifts in Church-State relations.
-
Richness and diversity of contradictory sources allows for a nuanced, “modern” complexity rarely available for medieval figures.
"What we very often get from the Middle Ages...is a pretty one dimensional picture...in Thomas Becket, we can actually see that. We can see the complexity."
—Michael Staunton [67:53]
10. Current and Future Work
- Dr. Staunton is working on a broader study of medieval biography, its conventions, and how life narratives were understood and written in the Middle Ages.
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
-
On framing Becket as a figure of his time:
"The story of Thomas Becket...gives us a way into England and Europe at a time of really dramatic change." — Staunton [06:37] -
On partisanship in sources:
"Biography in the Middle Ages, virtually all biography was partisan." — Staunton [07:55] -
On the Becket-Henry relationship:
"The kingdom simply isn't big enough for both of them." — Staunton [17:39, quoting a biographer] -
On Becket’s background:
"London is not big enough to contain Thomas." — Staunton [23:58] -
On Becket's transformation:
"He started to believe that, well, now I'm head of the English Church, I must stand up for its rights." — Staunton [30:18] -
On exile and its impact:
"Thomas was in exile for six years and he was murdered a month after his return to England." — Staunton [39:40] -
On Henry II’s culpability:
"...he bore culpability for his angry and rash words which provoked the murder..." — Staunton [52:31] -
On Becket’s enduring intrigue:
"We can see the complexity. We'll never end up figuring him out because there's so much that was written about him and there were so many dimensions to him." — Staunton [68:55]
Key Timestamps
- [02:40] Why another Becket biography?
- [07:55] The problem of partisan sources
- [12:41] Anatomy of the conflict: Henry II & Becket
- [20:21] London’s influence on Becket’s character
- [26:08] Becket’s conversion as Archbishop
- [34:28] The impact of exile
- [41:29] Becket’s symbolism as an exile
- [53:39] The murder in Canterbury Cathedral
- [57:36] Aftermath: sainthood and cult
- [62:36] Political & religious legacy
- [67:17] Why Becket still fascinates
- [69:16] Staunton’s upcoming research
Tone and Style
The conversation is scholarly yet accessible, weaving together biography, social history, and literary analysis. Staunton is reflective, precise, and at times vivid in evoking medieval London and the drama of Becket’s fate. The host’s questions are probing and often invite comparison with contemporary issues of narrative, mythmaking, and authority.
For Listeners New to Becket
Dr. Staunton’s book—and this interview—offer an entry point not only into Becket’s career and martyrdom but into the dynamic and turbulent world of the 12th century. With its nuanced look at sources, character, institutions, and shifting legacies, the episode provides a rich perspective for anyone interested in how history and biography intersect to shape the memory of extraordinary lives.