Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Nikaziotes
Guest: Michael W. Twitty
Episode: Recipes from the American South (Phaidon Press, 2025)
Date: October 21, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Dr. Nikaziotes welcomes back culinary historian and award-winning author Michael W. Twitty to discuss his latest book, Recipes from the American South. The conversation weaves through Twitty’s approach to food as a vessel for history, identity, and healing, touching on his experiences as a historical interpreter, the spiritual and communal dimensions of Southern cuisine, and the ways food connects deeply to issues of representation, heritage, and resilience. Twitty also reflects on self-doubt, legacy, and his ongoing projects.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Historical Interpretation and Embodied Scholarship

[02:27–08:26]

• Immersive Experiences: Twitty discusses his practice of interpreting the foodways of colonial and antebellum enslaved people and free people of color, describing how cooking in historic spaces (from Virginia to Minnesota) physically and spiritually connects him to history.

  • “I interpret the way colonial antebellum enslaved people and free people of color cooked. I've even cooked in Minnesota... the navel of the world, where creation began.” (03:21)

• Emotional and Spiritual Costs: He describes the profound emotional responses—tears, laughter, even visions—arising from working in sites with deeply charged histories.

  • “Sometimes I can tell you it can be very—it's not every—they're not angels, they're ancestors.” (07:14)
  • “I pour libation every single time... And I give them thanks for letting me be their mouthpiece.” (07:18)

• Navigating Critique: Twitty addresses criticism that his interpretive work is mere reenactment, countering that his role is as a 21st-century teacher, not a “pretend” participant in the past.

  • “I'm not pretending to be an enslaved person... I'm a 21st-century scholar teaching you.” (05:53)

Wrestling with Self-Doubt and Building Legacy

[08:59–13:21]

• Daily Self-Doubt: Twitty relates his spiritual practices (both Jewish and African) for centering himself and combating imposter syndrome.

  • “Your spiritual bridge to the creator and to the spiritual world... If your Ori blesses you, then you’re good.” (09:36–10:00)

• On Legacy and Representation: He emphasizes the importance of legacy over fear, describing how representation can ignite confidence in young Black men, encouraging them to see themselves as creators and storytellers.

  • “Self doubt, imposter syndrome, fear. Y'all got to move. You got to move out of my cerebral apartment because you can't live here no more. This is legacy time.” (12:00)
  • “There is a light that comes on in their face when they ask me questions like, is that you on that book cover? Because I know what they really mean is, I can be on a book cover, I can write a book, I can tell a story and people will hear me and see me.” (13:08–13:18)

Defining the American South and Culinary Heritage

[14:02–18:35]

• Beyond the Confederacy: Twitty rejects definitions of the South rooted in Confederate ideology or narrow geography, instead emphasizing a broader, older, and more inclusive history.

  • “If you start the South with Confederate identity... you are leaving out millions of Afro descendants.” (14:18)

• Three "Mamas" of the South: He positions the Chesapeake, the Low Country, and the lower Mississippi Valley as foundational culinary and cultural centers.

  • “The Chesapeake, the low country, lower Mississippi... Those are three mamas.” (15:23–15:28)

• A Multicultural South: Twitty insists on the depth and range of influences—African, Indigenous, European, Asian, Middle Eastern, Latin American—highlighting centuries of blending and reciprocal influence.

  • “Often a lot of times you'll see in these books: Europeans, Native Americans, and Africans. In this book it's Indigenous, African, and European... But not forgetting, we're also Asian... Middle Eastern... Latin American.” (17:43–18:17)

• Intersection of “Soul” and “Southern” Food: He challenges the binary of “Southern food as white, soul food as Black,” insisting that the traditions are intertwined and dialogic over centuries.

  • “We've toed the line... which says Southern is white and soul is black, when actually they're in Venn diagram and in a 400-year-old conversation. And conversation is not surrender.” (18:28–18:47)

The Emotional and Historical Complexity of Southern Cuisine

[18:47–22:28]

• Dualities of Praise and Critique: Twitty articulates how Southern food evokes both celebration and deep critique due to its links to histories of violence, class, health, and race.

  • “Southern food is... a dance between praise and criti[cism].” (18:47)
  • “The plantation houses are the American Downton Abbey... it's like the churches in Cuba. The display of religiosity is beautiful. But how it was enforced in our people is not.” (19:16–19:29)

• Ancestral Knowledge and Wisdom: Through years of research and interpretation, Twitty has learned to trust patterns and intuition passed down through generations.

  • “When you do this work often, you begin to know the patterns. And don't let nobody tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.” (21:11–21:15)

The Lifecycle of Food in Southern Culture

[22:30–30:59]

• Food as Companion through Life: Drawing on both Black and broader Southern tradition, Twitty details the way food marks every stage—from birth and childhood learning, to rites of passage, marriage, community gatherings, elder care, and even death.

  • “The Southern life cycle of food, which you sketch out a quite powerful narrative of how food accompanies us throughout every stage of life...” (22:30)

• Learning through the Senses: Culinary knowledge is absorbed by watching, hearing, and feeling—by direct immersion in family and community kitchens.

  • “How do people learn things? They watch the elders... Number of pictures... of little Black kids... watching their elders work and cook.” (25:05–25:15)

• Food and Ritual: From “sip and see” (akin to Ghanaian “outdooring”), to barbecuing as a rite of manhood, to Southern Black funerals and the rituals of feeding mourners, food sustains body and spirit.

  • “If you ever want to go to fried chicken hell, go to a Black funeral in the South.” (28:06)

• Elderhood and Memory: Twitty’s personal stories about caring for elders through food ground the discussion in lived love and transmission.

  • “The last thing I did for my father was bring him some soup... I made her some barbecue... My mother said to me, boy that was so good I had to slap myself. Instead of slap your mama, you just had to slap myself.” (29:03–29:56)
  • “I don't have anybody left to teach me how to be an elder... So I go into food so much... because I am reminding myself about the values, the spirit, and the intention that got my people to elderhood.” (30:25–30:59)

Southern Herbalism and Healing Traditions

[31:15–34:59]

• The Role of Herbalism: Twitty explains the decision to include herbal recipes, such as teas, and the central place of indigenous and ancestral knowledge in Southern foodways.

  • “Herbalism... I had a recipe in the book for sassafras tea. Those of us in the know know safrol is a controversial chemical.” (32:17–32:27)

• Food as Medicine: He explains how foods with light toxicity were used to purge parasites—examples of old wisdom that remains valuable.

  • “Our ancestors... they were wormy as hell. Everybody had parasitic worms... the reason why they would have the sassafras tea... a little bit of toxicity... flushed those parasites.” (33:26–34:06)

• Shared Knowledge Across Groups: The healing traditions cross ethnic and regional groups—Scots-Irish, Cajun, Cherokee, Haitian—and this common ground is vital.

  • “That's a conversation right there about how we are bound together, even though sometimes we see each other in bubbles...and really we’re not.” (35:03–35:14)

Current Projects and Reflections on Food, Identity, and Conflict

[35:16–39:38]

• Upcoming Work: Twitty previews ongoing projects—his “Father Country” project and his efforts to complete a trilogy on Black and Jewish food and ancestry.

• On Food and Conflict: Drawing on his work Kosher Soul, Twitty unpacks the overlapping histories and cuisines of Mizrahi Jews, Palestinians, and others, emphasizing food’s power to reveal commonality even amidst profound suffering.

  • “You have to understand, Palestinian food... they're cousins to each other because of the Mizrahi... the key to understanding each other and having peace is respecting each other's culture.” (36:34–37:22)

• Empathy and Endurance: He openly acknowledges the toll of living in a painful, conflict-ridden world, yet returns to food and community as sources of meaning and resilience.

  • “The Germans have a word for it: Weltschmerz, the pain of existence in this world. But I keep going because I gotta cook for people. I gotta keep people nourished, man. I gotta feed them intellectually.” (39:13–39:31)

Notable Quotes

• On Historical Interpretation:

  “I'm not pretending to be an enslaved person or a Black person living in that time. I'm a 21st century scholar teaching you.” (05:53, Michael Twitty)

• On Representation:

  “There is a light that comes on in their face when they ask me questions like, is that you on that book cover? ...I can be on a book cover, I can write a book, I can tell a story and people will hear me and see me.” (13:08–13:18, Michael Twitty)

• On Defining the South:

  “Sometimes the South is an adjective, sometimes it’s a verb. A lot of people think the South equals the Confederacy. Bump the Confederacy. If you start the South with Confederate identity... you are leaving out millions of Afro descendants.” (14:02–14:18, Michael Twitty)

• On Legacy and Doubt:

  “Self doubt, imposter syndrome, fear. Y’all got to move. You got to move out of my cerebral apartment because you can't live here no more. This is legacy time.” (12:00, Michael Twitty)

• On the Complexity of Southern Cuisine:

  “Southern food is... a dance between praise and criticism.” (18:47, Dr. Nikaziotes)
  “The plantation houses are the American Downton Abbey.” (19:20, Michael Twitty)

• On Food as Memory and Connection:

  “The last thing I did for my father was bring him some soup... my mother said to me, ‘boy, that was so good. I had to slap myself.’” (29:03–29:56, Michael Twitty)

• On Herbalism and Healing:

  “Our ancestors... they were wormy as hell. Everybody had parasitic worms... so a little tiny bit of toxicity... flushed those parasites from your body before they became intolerable.” (33:26–34:06, Michael Twitty)

• On Food and Peace:

  “The key to understanding each other and having peace is respecting each other's culture.... Food does not bring us together. We bring each other together. But food can be a means of telling stories that are otherwise more uncomfortable to tell.” (37:22–37:54, Michael Twitty)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction, Michael Twitty’s Approach to Interpretation: 02:27–08:26
• Self-Doubt, Legacy, and Representation: 08:59–13:21
• Defining the South and Culinary Roots: 14:02–18:35
• Southern Cuisine as Praise and Critique: 18:47–22:28
• The Southern Lifecycle of Food: 22:30–30:59
• Southern Herbalism and Healing Traditions: 31:15–34:59
• On Food and Cultural Conflict, Ongoing Work: 35:16–39:38

Memorable Moments

• Interpreting at Historic Sites: Twitty recalls cooking at Fort Snelling—the Dakota name “Bdote”—where he learned it was both a site significant for African American freedom and Indigenous suffering. The emotional and spiritual resonance drove him to tears. (04:07–05:50)
• Legacy and Eldership: His moving reflections on food’s role during the final days of his parents, tying kitchen memory to grief and gratitude. (29:03–30:59)
• On “Sip and See” and Life Cycles: Twitty connects African American “sip and see” celebrations to West African “outdooring” rituals, showing the persistence of African traditions. (23:46–24:10)
• On Cooking as Learning: Vivid depiction of children learning to cook by watching and working with elders, emphasizing the oral and sensory transmission of knowledge. (25:05–26:03)
• On Empowerment in the Kitchen and Beyond: Encouraging young Black men to claim authorship and visibility, fueled by seeing someone like themselves on a book cover. (13:08–13:21)
• On Food’s Power Across Divides: Advocating food as a vehicle for storytelling and cultural respect amid conflict. (37:22–37:54)

Conclusion

Michael Twitty’s interview is as much a meditation on ancestry, community, and resilience as it is a conversation about Southern food. Through storytelling, ritual, and scholarship, Twitty places food at the nexus of identity, legacy, and resistance, inviting listeners to value the fullness and complexity of Southern—and American—history as manifested in its kitchens and on its tables.