Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Michel-Yves Bollore and Olivier Bonnassies, "God, the Science, the Evidence" (Palomar, 2025)
Host: Caleb Zakrin
Guest: Michel-Yves Bollore (co-author)
Date: September 7, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Caleb Zakrin interviewing Michel-Yves Bollore, co-author of God, the Science, the Evidence. The book, a bestseller in Europe, explores the question at the heart of human existence: Does science support belief in God? Bollore discusses the motivation for writing the book, their approach in balancing science and philosophy, and his perspective on why the debate about science and belief in God remains alive and urgent in today’s world. The discussion weaves through the historic collision between science and faith, the scientific challenges to atheistic materialism, and reflections on morality, meaning, and the current cultural thirst for deeper answers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Background & Motivation for the Book

• Authors’ Journeys:
  • Michel-Yves Bollore is a lifelong engineer and Christian interested in the intersection of scientific discovery and faith.
  • Co-author Olivier Bonnassies, a top mathematician, grew up atheist until a chance encounter with a book on belief led him, through extensive reading, to become a Christian for "rational reasons, not faith." (03:35)
• Purpose:
  • The authors felt there was a lack of an accessible yet comprehensive book addressing the intersection of science, philosophy, history, and the evidence regarding God for the general public.
  • "We thought it would take one year of our time, when in fact it took four years with the help of 20 top scientists. So it has been a very, very long...work. But we are happy because, first of all, it's really extremely interesting." (05:53)

Science and the Decline of Belief

• Historical 'Shocks' to Faith:
  1. Cosmological revolution: Copernicus, Galileo, Newton showed the universe could be explained without direct recourse to God.
  2. Geological/Evolutionary challenge: Discoveries that earth was millions (then billions) of years old, and Darwinian evolution, undermined literal biblical accounts of creation.
  3. Rise of atheistic philosophy: Materialist and atheist ideologies gained prominence, influencing major 20th-century political movements.
• Modern Reversal:
  • New 20th-century scientific findings have "reversed" the intellectual momentum, presenting "three challenges to materialism":
    1. Absolute Beginning of the Universe:
       • Scientific evidence (from thermodynamics, cosmic expansion, quantum mechanics, math, and philosophy) strongly suggests the universe had a beginning: “If our universe had an absolute beginning, then there is a necessity for a creator God. Everybody agrees on that.” (11:13)
    2. Fine Tuning:
       • The laws and constants of the universe are so precisely defined that a life-permitting universe seems extremely improbable without intelligent design (12:55).
    3. Origin of Life:
       • The transition from non-life to life (abiogenesis) is not simply a small step but "a huge leap," given the complexity of even the simplest cell:

         “Now we know that life, the smallest cell, is something extraordinarily complicated, more than a huge aircraft... It's very, very complicated, with plenty of computers and languages, et cetera.” (15:18)

The God Hypothesis and Scientific Interpretation

• Limits and Implications of the Scientific Argument:
  • The kind of "God" supported is a powerful, immaterial cause—philosophically akin to "the cause of everything." (17:45)

    “We just want to know, in fact, is materialism...still a rational belief? And in fact what appears today is that materialism...is turning to be a little bit an irrational belief.” (18:29)

  • Multiverse theories are acknowledged but considered "not very likely." (19:18)
• Einstein’s Perspective:
  • Einstein, despite resisting religious affiliation, was a deist:

    "He believed that there was a cause...everyone who is interested in science and knows science understand that everything has been made by some spirit much more clever than all of us." (20:58)

The Views of Other Scientists

• Anecdotes and Citations:
  • The book includes 100 quotations from prominent scientists, expressing surprise or philosophical humility in the face of modern scientific discoveries.
  • Notable quote from Nobel laureate George Wald:

    “We know now that the spontaneous generation of life from matter is not possible. But I don't want to believe in God because philosophically I don't want to believe in God. So I prefer to believe in something I know impossible, which is a spontaneous apparition of life from matter.” (25:14)

Origin of Life: Experimental Setbacks

• Failed Laboratory Efforts:
  • Experiments in the 1950s (such as those by Miller) aimed to recreate life from primordial soup but failed as the complexity of the cell (especially after the discovery of DNA, RNA) became apparent:

    “The density of information is 1 billion times more complex...than in the more complex computers today. So you imagine what is a cell, the simplest cell, is something extraordinarily complicated.” (30:18)

Morality and the Argument from Ethics

• If God Does Not Exist:
  • Without a creator God, there is "no difference between you and me and a mosquito"—morality becomes arbitrary:

    “If God does not exist, everything is permitted.” (32:57)

  • Humans, deep down, sense intrinsic moral limits, which suggests a soul or transcendent grounding for values. (33:30)

Counterarguments and the Problem of Evil

• Most Compelling Objection:
  • How can a good God permit evil and suffering?

    “If a God who is good has done really the world. How is it possible to explain all...disease, death, and all the terrible things we can see? So this is the most difficult and the most frequent question of people.” (35:12)

• Desire for Freedom:
  • Some refuse belief in God out of a desire for autonomy, “no God, no master,” even against presented evidence. (35:55)

Trends in Belief and the Future

• Current Decline of Religious Faith:
  • Belief in God is declining globally, more in Europe than the US, attributed to the impacts of science, improved health, and material wellbeing, reducing the perceived 'need' for God (38:10).
• Hope and Science:
  • Despite material comforts, existential emptiness persists, fueling a renewed hunger for meaning and transcendent hope—questions the authors believe modern science can now meaningfully address:

    “There is a thirst, there is an anger to know more about God. Because people realize, perhaps they are wealthy...but they are touching with their fingers emptiness. ... And is there another reality? Is a creator God exists? Is there a life possible, eternal life after our life? That would be wonderful.” (41:22)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scientific Evidence for God:

  "If our universe had an absolute beginning, then there is a necessity for a creator God." —Michel Bollore (11:13)

• On George Wald’s confession:

  "But I don't want to believe in God because philosophically I don't want to believe in God. So I prefer to believe in something I know impossible, which is a spontaneous apparition of life from matter." —quoted by Michel Bollore (25:14)

• On Meaning Without God:

  "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." —Michel Bollore referencing Dostoevsky (32:57)

• On Modern Emptiness:

  "...people are feeling that they are somewhere which is not happy. And they are just wondering if perhaps all this way is wrong. ... And is there another reality? ... Is there a life possible, eternal life after our life?" —Michel Bollore (41:22)

Important Timestamps

• [02:50] — Introduction of authors' backgrounds and motivation
• [04:56] — Why they wrote the book and the collaborative process
• [08:00] — Historic 'shocks' to belief from science in Europe
• [10:40] — Modern scientific reversals and three main arguments against materialism
• [15:18] — The complexity of life and the origin of the first cell
• [17:30] — Scientific and philosophical limitations: what kind of 'God' is meant
• [20:19] — Einstein’s views on science and God
• [25:14] — George Wald’s quote on the origin of life
• [27:18] — Laboratory efforts to recreate life and their failures
• [31:48] — Morality, materialism, and the need for transcendence
• [35:07] — The problem of evil: most difficult argument against God’s existence
• [38:10] — Discussion of religious trends, societal changes, and people's ongoing thirst for meaning
• [41:22] — Existential emptiness and the hope for meaning and life after death

Tone & Language

• The conversation is clear, inquisitive, respectful, and philosophical, combining scientific reasoning with personal reflections and accessible explanations. Bollore’s tone is earnest and sometimes urgent, often returning to simple language and analogies to make his points accessible to a general audience. Zakrin's questions are probing, open-ended, and encourage elaboration.

Summary Takeaway

The episode provides an engaging overview of why God, the Science, the Evidence sparked such intense interest: it synthesizes contemporary science, philosophy, and existential questions to challenge the narrative that scientific progress has made belief in God irrational or obsolete. The discussion covers both historic and contemporary developments, making the case that while skepticism and materialism surged with scientific advances, new discoveries—especially in cosmology, the fine-tuning of the universe, and the origin of life—now make atheistic materialism less tenable. Morality, meaning, and the future of faith are also linked tightly to the scientific narrative, leaving listeners with the sense that age-old questions remain as urgent as ever, but now are underpinned by fresh scientific intrigue.