Podcast Summary: Mila Burns, "Dictatorship Across Borders: Brazil, Chile, and the South American Cold War" (UNC Press, 2025)

Podcast: New Books Network — New Books in Latin American Studies
Host: Rachel Newman
Guest: Mila Burns
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with historian Mila Burns about her new book, "Dictatorship Across Borders: Brazil, Chile, and the South American Cold War." Through a detailed discussion, Burns and host Rachel Newman challenge the traditional US-Soviet centric narrative of the Cold War, foregrounding the agency, ambitions, and interactions of Brazil and Chile in shaping regional history. The episode uncovers the role of Brazil as an independent actor—sometimes in alliance with the US, often on its own—in destabilizing Chile's Salvador Allende government, supporting authoritarianism, and experimenting with cross-border repression.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project and Archival Research

[02:14-06:05]

• Initial Skepticism and Research Obstacles:

  • Burns began her research in 2012 as a PhD student, facing doubts about the project's viability due to uncertain archival access.
  • The Brazilian Truth Commission's files were not yet catalogued, making early research daunting and overwhelming.

    “Every day I would sit and go over brown box after brown box, none of them cataloged. It was really overwhelming.” —Mila Burns [02:30]

• Motivation & Early Hints:

  • Inspired by exiles' memoirs accusing Brazil of interfering in Chilean politics, espionage, and targeting exiles.
  • Found archival evidence supporting claims that Brazil played a crucial role in undermining Salvador Allende's government—both in partnership with and independent of the US.

• Reframing the Cold War in South America:

  • Burns is not dismissing US influence but “inviting readers and historians to think of Brazil as an independent power who made its own decisions.”

    “Brazil was profoundly bothered with a democratically elected socialist in the neighborhood.” —Mila Burns [05:20]

2. Beyond the US-Soviet Binary: Regional Dynamics

[06:05-11:10]

• Complex Geopolitical Landscape:

  • South America's Cold War was characterized by its own regional rivalries and agendas.
  • Brazil became a military dictatorship in 1964, ousting João Goulart, whose policies included diplomatic openness and agrarian reform.
  • The intelligence service (cx) formed to track exiled enemies started by targeting Goulart and expanded to other countries, notably Chile.

• Chilean Democracy Amidst Rising Dictatorships:

  • Chile remained democratic until 1973, maintaining relations with both the US and Brazil, and debating over Cuba’s influence in the continent.

3. Brazilian Exiles in Chile: Diversity and Experience

[11:10-17:36]

• Heterogeneous Exile Patterns:

  • Not all Brazilian exiles were prominent figures; the group included students, intellectuals, artists, and working-class individuals.
  • Oral histories reveal that exile was often far from romantic or liberating—many faced suspicion, surveillance, lack of work authorization, and hardship.

    “There’s this myth of exile as a period of creativity, freedom, fighting against the power... In some cases, we have exiles who went to Chile and had no documents, had no authorization to work in Chile, didn’t feel like asking Salvador Allende for favors, so really had a hard time.” —Mila Burns [12:30]

• Patterns of Migration:

  • Several distinct waves of exile, particularly after the 1968 Institutional Act Number Five, which heralded increased repression in Brazil.
  • The "Setenta"—70 exiles who were part of political prisoner-for-ambassador exchanges—became well-known in Santiago.

• Persistent Surveillance & Dangers:

  • Many exiles experienced direct and indirect harassment, theft of sensitive materials, and infiltration by spies posing as fellow exiles.

4. Brazil’s Diplomatic Espionage and Policy Objectives in Chile

[17:36-23:32]

• Espionage Networks and The Role of Diplomats:

  • Brazil's diplomatic service was deeply involved in espionage, especially Ambassador Antonio Cândido Câmara Canto, who later forged close ties with Pinochet and sheltered coup plotters.
  • Intelligence work was spearheaded by cx, and sometimes employed double agents like Cabo Anselmo.

• Cabo Anselmo – Double Agent:

  • A key figure, initially a revolutionary sailor turned double agent who reported on exiles’ activities back to Brazil’s secret police.

    “He would send back Brazil things that he called flirt reports... with what was going on in the exiles' lives. Where did they go, if they went to the Cuban Embassy, what they were planning on, passwords, many different things.” —Mila Burns [19:40]

• Operation Condor Precursor:

  • Brazil’s intelligence activities in Chile prefigured the multinational “Operation Condor” but the existing Brazilian network limited its later formal participation.

5. Cross-Border ‘Think Tanks’, Ideas, and Economic Policy

[23:32-29:35]

• IPES & IBAGE: Brazilian Think Tanks Influencing Chile:

  • The Instituto de Pesquisas Econômicas e Sociais (IPES) and Instituto Brasileiro de Ação Democrática (IBAD) played a crucial role in spreading ideological and material support, providing blueprints for Chilean elites.

    “There’s an interchange of ideas that is as important and as powerful sometimes as sending objects or weapons...” —Mila Burns [24:15]

• Female Mobilization Campaigns:

  • The Brazilian "March for the Family with God for Freedom" directly inspired Chile's "March of the Empty Pots," a pivotal anti-Allende protest.

• Economic Orthodoxy Transfers:

  • Roberto Campos ("Bob Fields")' economic liberalization under the Brazilian dictatorship predated and strongly influenced Chile’s Chicago Boys.
  • Campos’s and Bulhões's austerity policies provided a model for Chile’s later neoliberal reforms.

6. Brazil’s Active Role in the 1973 Chilean Coup

[29:35-34:45]

• Direct Involvement in Allende’s Overthrow:

  • Brazil sent weapons, medicine, and even professional torturers to assist Chilean counterparts after the coup.

    “Brazil sent even torturers to the Estadio Nacional in Chile... They went to Chile to teach their Chilean counterparts how to do this in the National Stadium.” —Mila Burns [30:35]

• US-Brazil “Secret Channel”:

  • President Médici (Brazil) and Nixon (US) coordinated strategies to destabilize Chile, maintaining a secret diplomatic channel.

    “Allende will fall. For the same reasons Goulart fell in Brazil. He emphasized that Brazil was already working toward that goal.” —Mila Burns [33:25]

• Brazil’s Independent and Collaborative Role:

  • Burns emphasizes that Brazil acted both independently and in unison with the US—complicating the more common singular narrative of US imperialism.

7. Aftermath of the Coup: Repression, Trauma, and Memory

[34:45-39:42]

• Torture and Trauma among Exiles:

  • Brazilian exiles experienced and witnessed torture in Chile, often at the hands of or with the assistance of Brazilian specialists.

  • Revisiting these stories, both for the exiles and for Burns as a researcher, is deeply traumatic.

    “The trauma is real, and these people are really generously revisiting trauma to talk to me about what happened, and that’s how much they care about setting a straight record.” —Mila Burns [36:13]

  • Some exiles still felt suspicion towards Burns as an interviewer, decades later—testament to the depth of their mistrust and scars.

• Responsibility and Method:

  • Burns feels a duty to relay these accounts truthfully, balancing oral history with documentary evidence, and acknowledges the emotional toll of such work.

Notable Quotes

• On the Book’s Central Aim:

  “I’m not trying to dismiss the role of the United States...but I’m trying to also include the role of Brazil to this equation.” —Mila Burns [05:00]

• On Shifting Perspectives:

  “The Cold War was not that cold. See what happened in many of the countries in Latin America, where there were really very violent interventions and actions from external actors from other countries, including the United States, but also reactions...from political actors inside this country.” —Mila Burns [07:15]

• On Economic Influence:

  “The ladrillo...the plan that the Chicago Boys implemented in Chile is very similar to the...economic action plan that Roberto Campos and Bullhões proposed in Brazil.” —Mila Burns [28:45]

• On Trauma and Testimony:

  “These people are really generously revisiting trauma to talk to me about what happened, and that’s how much they care about setting a straight record.” —Mila Burns [36:13]

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Origin of research & archival challenges | 02:14-06:05 | | Explaining the South American Cold War framework | 06:05-11:10 | | Diversity/experience of Brazilian exiles | 11:10-17:36 | | Brazilian diplomatic espionage in Chile | 17:36-23:32 | | Influence of think tanks & economic policy | 23:32-29:35 | | Brazil’s active coup participation | 29:35-34:45 | | Trauma, research, and responsibility | 34:45-39:42 | | Burns’s next projects (telenovelas & family diaries)| 40:15-44:08 |

Memorable Moments

• Burns describes finding uncatalogued archives and the thrill of uncovering evidence confirming long-suspected Brazilian involvement in Chile.

  “I remember opening really the very first box and finding random stuff ... sitting there untouched for decades.” —Mila Burns [02:40]

• Burns recounts exiles’ suspicion decades later—one refused an interview, fearing she was an agent due to her surname.

  “He thought I could be a CIA agent and said, the only way I'm going to give you an interview is if you bring someone else with you.” —Mila Burns [36:00]

Burns’s Current and Future Research

[40:15-44:08]

• Brazilian Telenovelas in Cuba:

  • New project examines the cultural impact and “soft power” of Brazilian soap operas in socialist Cuba during the Cold War—revealing surprising influence on social debates about gender, sexuality, and family.

• Personal Family History:

  • Upcoming work on her ancestor’s diaries, exploring migration from Spain to Brazil, and key moments in Brazil’s transformation (abolition, republic, etc.).

Conclusion

This episode provides a vital reframing of South America’s Cold War, insisting on the agency and ambitions of regional powers like Brazil. Burns’s meticulous archival research, sensitive oral histories, and interdisciplinary approach yield new insights into the relationship between Brazil, Chile, and the broader currents of Cold War repression, diplomacy, and resistance.

For listeners seeking to understand Latin American history beyond US-Soviet terms, this episode—and Burns’s book—is essential.