Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Abhilasha Jain
Guest: Professor Mukul Sharma (Ashoka University)
Book Discussed: Dalit Ecologies: Caste and Environmental Justice (Cambridge University Press, 2024)
Release Date: October 12, 2025

In this episode, Abhilasha Jain interviews Professor Mukul Sharma about his groundbreaking new book, which explores the intersection of caste and environmental justice in India. The conversation dives deep into how mainstream environmentalism often overlooks the lived experiences and knowledge systems of Dalit and other marginalized communities, addressing the theoretical and practical implications of centering caste in environmental debates.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Professor Sharma’s Background and Motivation (03:13–07:33)

• Sharma’s Interdisciplinary Experience: Political science background, journalist, and environmental studies professor.
• Social Ecology Framework: Sharma identifies hierarchy and domination in social structures as the roots of ecological issues.
• Aim of the Book: To seriously understand the environments that Dalits "inhabit, endure, or transform," and how caste shapes experiences of industrial pollution, city waste, and cultural responses to environment.
• Key Quote:

  “Ecological problems cannot be understood, much less resolved, without facing social issues. And this is the basis of my new research book, Dalit Ecologies…”
  (04:04–04:19)

2. The Caste-Blindness of Mainstream Indian Environmentalism (07:33–12:17)

• Core Argument: Mainstream Indian environmentalism ignores caste, focusing instead on displacement, forests, dams, and sustainability without acknowledging how these are structured by caste hierarchies.
• Introduction of Key Concepts:
  • Eco-casteism: How environmental discourses reproduce and naturalize caste hierarchies.

    “…eco casteism refers to the ways in which caste hierarchies are reproduced, justified or naturalized through environmental discourses.” (08:44–08:51)

  • Eco-naturalism: The tendency to protect 'natural' social orders (i.e., Brahminical order) in the name of environmental protection.
• Dalit Ecological Perspective: Focuses on exclusion, labor, survival, and suffering as central to environmental issues, shifting the narrative toward justice and equality.

3. Dalit Literature and Art as Environmental Archives (12:17–16:24)

• Methodology: Sharma uses Dalit literature, folklore, art, and autobiographies as a "counter archive."
• Why It Matters: These works document forced occupations, struggles for access to resources, and alternative ecological imaginations missed by dominant narratives.
• Material Culture: Examples include Madhuani art and the Rock Garden of Chandigarh as sites of resistance and dignity.
• Key Quote:

  “Environmental thought is just not located in scientific reports or professional endeavors, but also in the lived struggles, creative expressions and counter memories of marginalized community.”
  (15:08–15:21)

4. Critique of “Community” and the Commons (16:24–22:35)

• Romanticized Community: Traditional environmentalism celebrates the rural 'community' as harmonious, ignoring intra-community caste hierarchy and exclusions.
• Dalit Perspective: 'Common' resources historically meant exclusion for Dalits (e.g., not allowed to draw water from common wells or use communal cremation grounds).
  • Example:

    “A common well in an Indian village often meant from which Dalit could not draw water…what was called common was never common to all. It was structured by caste power.”
    (18:51–19:19)

• Reimagining Commons: Stories like Dashrath Manji (“Mountain Man”) carving a road for Dalit communities illustrate the active transformation of exclusionary common spaces into inclusive resources.
• Takeaway: True environmental justice demands a historically conscious, inclusive approach to the commons, not idealized harmony.

5. Dalit-Bahujan Anthropocene and Black-Dalit Ecologies (22:35–30:33)

• Challenging the Universal Anthropocene: Mainstream narratives obscure how caste, race, and colonial histories produce unequal environmental burdens.
• Dalit-Bahujan Anthropocene: Centers the experiences of those at the bottom of caste and labor hierarchies, whose lives are “entangled with toxicity, waste, exclusion from land and water.”
• Creative Resistance: Dalits not only endure violence but reimagine waste as resource, displacement as movement, creating a “counter archive of ecological knowledge.”
• Transnational Solidarity: Explicit links between the Dalit Panthers (India) and Black Panthers (US), emphasizing the necessity of alliances in global environmental justice.
• Key Quote:

  “There is no singular universal Anthropocene. Rather, there are multiple, a stratified Anthropocene that expose the racial and caste violence hidden within the dominant story of humanity as a species.”
  (28:53–29:09)

6. Ambedkar’s Modernity—A Radical Ecological Project (30:33–36:51)

• Ambedkar’s Vision: Modernity was not anti-nature but a tool for liberation from the “oppressive, caste ridden natural and social order.”
• De-romanticizing the Village: For Ambedkar, villages were not sites of ecological harmony but spaces of “graded inequality.”
  • Quote:

    “…for him it was a site of graded inequality where untouchables were denied land, water, dignity and basic human rights.”
    (32:12–32:21)

• Dual Critique: Challenges both “romantic environmentalism” and “caste-blind developmentalism”—calls for democratized access to land, water, technology.
• Implication: Sustainable futures require deep social transformation; struggles for environment and democracy are inseparable.

7. Future Projects and the Politics of Language (37:10–42:17)

• Expanding Environmental Knowledge:
  • Hindi Translation: Making “Dalit Ecologies” available in Hindi to engage with non-elite, vernacular audiences.
  • New Book on Bihar: Collaborative project tracing 100 years of ecological and political change in Bihar.
  • Muslims and the Environment: Investigating the marginalization of Muslims in environmental discourse; calling for their inclusion in ecological knowledge production.
• Language Politics: Writing in Hindi is an act of inclusivity and democratization, challenging the dominance of English in environmental thought.
• Key Quote:

  “Ecology is not just a technical or professional or Hindu or elite discourse, but as something deeply shaped by caste, religion, language, labor, and ambition. That, to me, is the urgent task for the future of environmental research and activism in India.”
  (41:23–41:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Eco-casteism:
  “…some streams of Indian environmentalism have actually celebrated the caste system as a form of ecological adaptation. Here, caste is portrayed as if it were a sustainable arrangement of labor and resource use, ignoring its many, many violent exclusions…” (09:10–09:24, Sharma)

• On Commons and Exclusion:
  “A common will in an Indian village often meant from which Dalit could not draw water. A common funeral ground meant a place where Dalit bodies could not be cremated. In other words, what was called common was never common to all.” (19:02–19:20, Sharma)

• On Ambedkar’s Ecological Thought:
  “Liberation from caste is itself an ecological project. And the struggle for environmental justice in India must also be a struggle for establishing and deepening social democracy.” (36:41–36:51, Sharma)

Important Timestamps

• 01:37–03:12 – Host introduction and Prof. Sharma’s background
• 03:13–07:33 – Why write Dalit Ecologies? Social ecology framework
• 07:33–12:17 – Mainstream environmentalism's caste-blindness; eco-casteism and eco-naturalism defined
• 12:17–16:24 – Dalit archives: literature, folklore, and art as sources of ecological thought
• 16:24–22:35 – Critique of 'community' and reimagining the commons
• 22:35–30:33 – Dalit-Bahujan Anthropocene and global solidarities with Black ecological thought
• 30:33–36:51 – Ambedkar: modernity as an ecological and political project
• 37:10–42:17 – Current/future research: Language politics, Bihar ecology and economy, Muslims in environmentalism

Episode Takeaways

• Caste is fundamental to understanding environmental injustice in India.
• Dominant environmental and developmental discourses overlook the lived realities of Dalit and other marginalized communities.
• Dalit literature, art, and grassroots knowledge offer a transformative archive for new environmental imaginaries.
• Transnational solidarities—from Dalit Panthers to Black Panthers—highlight the necessity of fighting racial and caste oppression as ecological work.
• Liberation from oppression and environmental justice are inseparable; sustainability must include equality, dignity, and new ways of imagining community and commons.

Recommended for Listeners Seeking…

• Critical perspectives on caste and the environment
• Innovative, intersectional methodologies in environmental research
• Practical and theoretical frameworks for reimagining justice in environmentalism
• Connections between Indian and global movements for ecological and social justice

End of Summary