Podcast Summary: Older Adults Learning English in Berlin

Podcast: New Books Network – Language on the Move
Host: Hannah Torsh
Guest: Katarina Gench (Doctoral Candidate, University of Hamburg)
Date: April 7, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the motivations, experiences, and social implications of older adults learning English in Berlin. Host Hannah Torsh speaks with doctoral researcher and educator Katarina Gench about her recent article and PhD work on the subject. The conversation delves into how the increasing ubiquity of English in Berlin's urban landscape affects older residents, their sense of belonging, agency, and the broader societal context of language, aging, and inclusion.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Motivation & Research Origins

• [03:12] Katarina shares her background: from earning her CELTA certificate and teaching English to older adults, to noticing how meaningful the classes were for participants and how under-discussed this group is in both society and research.
  • “I realized that I really enjoyed working with older adults … students who really appreciated these weekly classes.”
  • The persistent questions from others (“Why would older people still bother…? Can they even still learn?”) spurred her desire to research this topic.

2. Defining "Older Adults" and Its Challenges

• [06:11] The definition of "older" varies.
  • Age can be subjective; cohort identification often depends on self-description or class marketing (e.g., “English for Seniors” classes).
  • “I personally … go by whether the learners describe themselves as old or not.”
  • Ongoing debate among course providers about labeling classes for "seniors" due to concerns about potential stigma.

3. Why Older Adults Choose English Classes

• [09:38] Students appreciate the direct address of courses for their cohort and feel more comfortable in age-peer classes.

  • They expect shared starting points and learning interests.
  • "If a class is marketed directly for seniors, I expect that … I will not feel left out or left behind."

• [11:08] Motivations are diverse:

  • Travel and independence (navigating vacations)
  • Cultural interests (music, literature in English)
  • Adaptation to Berlin’s multilingual/English-heavy environment as a means of everyday participation.
  • “For many … English really is a means to participate in the communication that is happening all around them.”

4. The Ubiquity of English in Berlin

• [12:43] English pervades signage, workplaces, and daily encounters, especially in central Berlin.
  • Many older residents, especially with East German backgrounds, did not learn English in school but rather Russian.
  • “People will just address you very casually in English without even stopping to ask if this is a language that is available to you.” ([15:16])
  • This can lead to feelings of irritation, exclusion, or even social dislocation for some older adults.

5. Ambivalence and Resistance

• [16:26] Participants express a range of feelings about English’s dominance:
  • Embracement of cosmopolitanism and diversity
  • Indifference, seeing it as natural linguistic evolution
  • Rejection: experiencing the dominance of English as exclusionary, even discriminatory or ageist.
  • “I have also people tell me that they experience it as a discriminatory and ageist practice that knowingly excludes older people who do not know English very well from public communication.” ([18:44])
• Yet, many choose to learn English anyway to regain agency or simply keep pace with the changing city.

6. English as Global Lingua Franca and its Social Meaning

• [21:11] Discussion on why English, in particular, carries prestige—unlike other languages common in Berlin (Turkish, Arabic, Russian), its use in public contexts is largely unquestioned.

• English is seen as a pathway to cosmopolitanism and social capital, not just communication.

  • "With English, nobody even seems to think into that direction [of integration or assimilation]." ([22:27])

• [26:28] For older learners, English is not just a tool:

  • “…it's about them shaping the current stage of their life, about shaping their age stage in a way that feels satisfying to them.”
  • It connects to independence, self-determination, and everyday agency—both at home and abroad.

7. Research Methods & Advice for Graduate Researchers

• [28:50] Qualitative, semi-structured interviews (23 total) with participants in senior-advertised English courses.
  • Gained access through professional networks (having taught at several providers).
  • Asked about motivations, classroom experiences, life stage, and encounters with English.
  • Tip: Leave interview space open for reflection and stories—sometimes the best insights surface after formal questions end.
    • “Leave recording device on until the very end.” ([33:38])
  • Notably, participants often reflected on their changing attitudes to language learning and aging, sometimes inspired by family memories.

8. What’s Next for the Research?

• [34:48] Katarina is now working to synthesize her research into a monograph (her PhD thesis) and joining a new project on literacy and multilingualism among older female migrants in Hamburg.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "Can they even still learn a foreign language at their age?" – The societal assumption Katarina decided to challenge ([03:12])

• “I feel like this really has allowed me to get more of a complete picture of their experience.” – On open-format interviewing ([28:50])

• "Regardless of their attitude towards that use of English, every one ... still chose to learn English in order to overcome these irritations, to ... navigate this now so English urban environment." ([18:45])

• “Thinking about and improving access to language learning for older adults is really something we need to consider when we think about how does a society where everybody can age well look like?” ([28:05])

• "It's about them ... retaining their agency." – Hannah paraphrasing a key finding ([28:15])

Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------| | 02:05 | Episode and guest introduction | | 03:12 | Katarina's entry into teaching older adults | | 06:11 | Defining “older learners” | | 09:38 | Key findings: motivation and class preference | | 11:08 | Motivations for learning English | | 12:43 | English presence in Berlin; generational context | | 15:16 | The daily challenge of English for older residents | | 16:26 | Ambivalence, pride, and resistance | | 18:44 | Feeling excluded or discriminated by English usage | | 21:11 | English as global lingua franca and its status | | 26:28 | Language learning, agency, and self-determination | | 28:50 | Research methods and interview advice | | 34:48 | Next steps: thesis and new research directions |

Conclusion

This conversation unpacks how learning English is entwined with questions of agency, adaptation, and identity for older adults in Berlin’s changing linguistic landscape. Katarina Gench’s research foregrounds the voices and motivations of learners often neglected in both public discourse and academic study, challenging stereotypes about aging and language. The episode offers rich qualitative insight, methodological guidance for researchers, and a nuanced view of the intersection of language, age, and urban life.