Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Oren Harman, "Metamorphosis: A Natural and Human History" (Basic Books, 2025)
Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Renee Garfinkel
Guest: Oren Harman, historian of science and author

Episode Overview

This episode delves into Oren Harman's book, "Metamorphosis: A Natural and Human History," exploring the biological, philosophical, and personal dimensions of transformation in nature and human life. Harman discusses how the remarkable phenomenon of metamorphosis—seen in creatures from butterflies to jellyfish—offers profound insights into questions of identity, change, and the stories we tell about ourselves and our societies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional and Intellectual Spark behind the Book

[02:00–03:57]

• Harman traces his fascination with metamorphosis to both scientific curiosity and a personal moment: learning that he and his wife were expecting their third child.
• Repeated dreams about his childhood butterfly chrysalis connected the impending birth and metamorphosis:
  • "I started thinking after I dreamt this one night, and then a second night, and a third ... that there might be some connection between the impending birth of our third child and the phenomenon of metamorphosis ... it always seemed like the closest thing to natural magic." (Oren Harman, 03:42)
• The book became both an intellectual quest and a personal journey.

2. Case Studies in Natural Metamorphosis

The Jellyfish: Aging Backwards

[04:05–06:47]

• The "immortal jellyfish" (Turritopsis dohrnii) can reverse its life cycle, reverting from its adult Medusa stage back to its egg-like origins in response to environmental stressors.
  • "It is a form of aging backwards. If you've ever seen that film Benjamin Button, it's the natural version of the film." (Oren Harman, 04:19)
• The species as a whole achieves a sort of immortality, though individual jellyfish can still die from predation or accident.
• Metamorphosis is shown to be not just linear, but cyclical in some species.

The Starfish: Multiple Selves

[08:57–13:40]

• Starfish development illustrates dramatic identity shifts: a single organism splits into two, both genetically identical but outwardly and functionally distinct, living side-by-side.
  • "We lack the language in our own human world to explain this relationship. ... It would almost be as if a juvenile gave birth to a parent and then continued to live simultaneously. We don't have anything like it." (Oren Harman, 11:59)
• Harman highlights Steinbeck’s warning about biological analogy but also its value when reflecting on human identity.

3. Defining Metamorphosis

[07:24–08:25]

• Biologically, metamorphosis is defined as "dramatic post-embryonic development," but Harman notes this is a fuzzy, arbitrary distinction:

  • "How dramatic does dramatic post embryonic development have to be to count as metamorphic? And then you can also ask, who gets to decide?" (Oren Harman, 07:36)

• The definition reveals that "change is in the eye of the beholder," impacting scientific, philosophical, and cultural interpretations.

4. Are Humans Metamorphic?

[13:40–16:32]

• While humans aren't technically classified as metamorphic, Harman argues that key human developmental processes (e.g., the effect of thyroxine in brain development) are evolutionarily rooted in ancient metamorphic systems.
  • "There is something very arbitrary about whom we choose to call metamorphic and whom we decide are not ... when you look at our biology, we are metamorphosing creatures." (Oren Harman, 16:12)
• Suggests our attraction to superheroes and transformers may reflect a deeper resonance with metamorphosis.

5. Metamorphosis in Culture: Philosophy, Art, and Science

[17:30–23:00]

• The phenomenon of metamorphosis has captivated thinkers and artists:
  • Aristotle theorized about transformation based on observed "imperfections" in insects.
  • Early modern thinkers saw metamorphosis as an echo of religious transfiguration.
  • Romantic and scientific views swing between mechanism and holistic visions of life.
• Myths from Ovid to Peter Pan reflect and shape societal understandings.
  • "[Ovid] is obsessed with radical transformations." (Oren Harman, 21:20)
• Harman draws direct parallels between scientific and artistic explorations of change, blurring disciplinary boundaries.

6. Modern Resonances: Futurism and Biotechnology

[23:00–25:22]

• In the age of avatars and digital selves, Harman sees echoes of metamorphosis:
  • We increasingly "entertain the possibility of avatars, of being able to live in alternative possible worlds ... [which] inches closer to, say, the experience ... of the starfish existing ... both as an adult and ... a youth." (Oren Harman, 23:20)
• Human ambivalence toward change persists; studying natural metamorphosis can expand our perspective.

7. The Thread of Self: Memory, Narrative, and Identity

[25:22–30:59]

• Research in insects shows varying degrees of memory continuity through metamorphosis:
  • Flies experience a "nirvanic state of no inputs, no self," and lose larval memories; butterflies retain a memory footprint.
  • "So memory is a part of [selfhood], but it may not be everything." (Oren Harman, 29:24)
• Philosopher Galen Strawson’s distinction:
  • "There are people who are episodic ... and there are people who are narrative ... Those are narrative people. Episodic people really don't put much valence on the past, on their own past. They sort of live in the moment." (Oren Harman, 29:51)
• Harman suggests even "inconsistent" life arcs can form a consistent, meaningful whole.

8. Social Metamorphosis

[30:59–34:30]

• Societies, too, can undergo transformation, often triggered not by rational argument but by lived experience:
  • Judicial opinions and social attitudes change in response to personal stories rather than reasoned debate.
  • "I think that what changes society is very seldom argument ... but rather lived, experienced ... viscerally ... that we feel almost viscerally." (Oren Harman, 32:14)
• Societal institutions anchor continuity amidst change.

9. Personal Metamorphosis: On Parenthood and Change

[34:30–36:17]

• Harman describes becoming a father again as the most meaningful transformation of his life:
  • "It's kind of a Copernican revolution. It sort of moves yourself away from the center of your being. ... There could be no greater gift than not being in the center of your universe. Kids are that gift." (Oren Harman, 35:21)
• Parenthood fosters empathy, altruism, and a healthy perspective on life and change.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It always seemed like the closest thing to natural magic." (Oren Harman, 03:37)
• "It is a form of aging backwards. If you’ve ever seen that film Benjamin Button, it’s the natural version of the film." (Oren Harman, 04:19)
• "Change is in the eye of the beholder." (Oren Harman, 08:26)
• "We lack the language in our own human world to explain this relationship." (Oren Harman, on starfish, 11:59)
• "There is something very arbitrary about whom we choose to call metamorphic and whom we decide are not ... we are metamorphosing creatures." (Oren Harman, 16:12)
• "We are storytelling creatures, even when the story that we tell ourselves is that we don't have a story." (Oren Harman, 30:46)
• "I think what changes society is very seldom argument... but rather lived, experienced, live. Experience is something that we live through that is close to us, that we feel almost viscerally." (Oren Harman, 32:14)
• "There could be no greater gift than not being in the center of your universe. Kids are that gift." (Oren Harman, 35:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:07] – Harman on personal spark behind the book
• [04:19] – Jellyfish and "aging backwards"
• [07:33] – Defining metamorphosis and its ambiguity
• [08:57] – Starfish development and identity questions
• [13:40] – Humans as metamorphosing creatures
• [17:30] – Cultural, philosophical, and artistic views
• [23:20] – Modern technology and identity transformation
• [25:35] – Memory, narrative, and philosophy of self
• [30:59] – Societies and social metamorphosis
• [34:51] – Parenthood, change, and meaning

Conclusion

This episode beautifully weaves together biology, philosophy, culture, and personal reflection, using the lens of metamorphosis to probe fundamental questions of identity and transformation. Harman's insights reveal how the mysteries of nature echo through our lives, stories, and societies, inviting us to embrace both the inevitability and the wonder of change.