Patrick Parr, "Malcolm Before X" (U Massachusetts Press, 2024)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Patrick Parr, "Malcolm Before X" (New Books Network, Oct 26, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of New Books Network, host Chelsea Harris interviews Patrick Parr, the author of Malcolm Before X (University of Massachusetts Press, 2024). The book dives deep into Malcolm X’s prison years, drawing from an unprecedented trove of nearly 2,000 pages of prison records, interviews, and other primary sources. Parr discusses how these overlooked formative years shaped Malcolm X’s journey from Malcolm Little into the activist known to history. The conversation highlights research challenges, family dynamics, the transformative power of education in prison, and the lasting impact of Malcolm’s religious and intellectual awakening.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parr’s Path to Malcolm X and Biographical Writing

[02:37–05:06]

• Parr’s interest in pivotal years of historical figures began in 2012, focusing on age 22 as a crossroads in the lives of iconic personalities.
• Difficulty finding sufficient material on Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.'s formative years led Parr to delve deeper, first writing about King before turning to Malcolm.
• The realization that Malcolm’s transformation largely occurred in prison was foundational to Parr’s research focus.

“I wanted to know a lot about historical figures in the past… but when I was putting the book together, there were two people I couldn’t really create a portrait for… Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. There was very little… about their formative years.” — Patrick Parr [03:21]

2. Unique Contribution of Malcolm Before X

[05:06–07:08]

• Previous major biographies (by Manning Marable and the Paynes) touched only briefly on Malcolm’s prison period.
• Parr’s book positions readers physically and emotionally beside Malcolm during incarceration, offering unprecedented depth.
• Emphasis on transformation: how even at life’s lowest points, individuals can inspire themselves to change.

“For me, I wanted Malcolm Before X to be, you are going to go to prison and you're going to stand next to Malcolm… as he begins to transform into the person he wants to be.” — Patrick Parr [06:15]

3. The Research Process: Navigating Prison Records

[07:08–10:15]

• Accessing records was both physically and mentally challenging; many files were difficult to read and required creative reconstruction.
• Some files were accessed digitally (especially during quarantine), while others were sent as physical, massive bundles that Parr scanned and organized.
• The records enabled Parr to reconstruct Malcolm’s daily life, track routines, and visualize the prison environment.

“Those prison files have given me new eyeglasses… every page brought a new angle to Malcolm’s day to day life.” — Patrick Parr [07:25]

4. Narrative Structure and Intent

[10:15–12:36]

• The book intentionally opens with the break-ins that landed Malcolm in prison, then rewinds to his childhood before focusing on the prison years.
• The structure is meant to immerse readers in Malcolm’s reality, encouraging them to weigh the justice of his sentence and see the human consequences of his crimes.
• Parr strove to humanize all parties involved—victims and perpetrators—by tracking down names and details painstakingly.

“I wanted people to see what he stole… I wanted them to see that there was a human consequence… and I also wanted them to see that there was a bias to his crimes compared to… someone who is white who did the same thing.” — Patrick Parr [11:09]

5. Family Dynamics: The Influence of Ella

[12:36–14:38]

• Malcolm’s sister Ella provided essential support but was also complex—often bending social and legal rules to survive.
• Her strength, independence, and at times questionable behavior provided Malcolm both an example and a source of conflict.
• Family perspectives on Ella vary, but Parr leans toward assessing her influence as positive and formative.

“Ella’s a person who doesn’t mind breaking the rules to get what she needs or breaking the law… I’d go more positive than negative. There was a strength there…” — Patrick Parr [13:22]

6. The Transformative Power of Prison Education

[14:38–17:13]

• Malcolm credited his oratorical and intellectual growth almost entirely to his prison studies.
• The Norfolk prison library was exceptional, providing unparalleled access to books thanks to philanthropist Lewis Parkhurst, whose personal loss fueled his contributions.
• The environment at Norfolk promoted debate and self-education, catalyzing Malcolm’s transformation.

“Once he saw that prison library, a lot of stuff in his life… just slid off a bit like snow that comes off of a sloped roof. He was deep into the books…” — Patrick Parr [15:09]
“An actual public library would have been jealous to have that library outside the prison walls.” — Patrick Parr [15:35]

7. Surveillance and Paranoia: The FBI After Release

[17:13–20:46]

• Malcolm was immediately surveilled by the FBI following his release, especially after affiliating publicly with the Nation of Islam.
• Parr clarifies that Malcolm’s surveillance began the moment he emerged as a charismatic public figure—a detail neglected or glossed over in earlier accounts.
• The book intentionally ends here, demarcating the private, formative Malcolm from the public Malcolm X.

“...as soon as Malcolm stands up in that moment, there’s an FBI special agent in that crowd... that’s the first domino that leads to this 13 year following.” — Patrick Parr [18:32]

8. Religion, Purpose, and Identity

[20:46–22:40]

• Prison for Malcolm—and for many—triggered an existential search for purpose; religion provided him both personal meaning and a path back into society.
• The Nation of Islam gave Malcolm not just faith but an organizational structure and mission.
• This renewal extended beyond self-redemption to a mission of uplifting others still oppressed or ostracized.

“All of them [other prison memoirists] have a commonality and that’s purpose. I think Malcolm was truly deeply…wondering what he was doing on this rock.” — Patrick Parr [21:10]
“...the Nation of Islam… gave him purpose and an apparatus to get back into society without being harmed too much by how society had hurt him in the first place.” — Patrick Parr [21:44]

9. Memorable Research Moments—The Boxing Revelation

[22:40–24:47]

• Parr shares a “turn every page” moment inspired by Robert Caro: the discovery of a rare round-by-round account of Malcolm’s boxing match in prison.
• This unexpected find, after grueling research, encapsulated the joys and surprises of biographical scholarship.

“But then there it was, little versus Johnson… I couldn’t believe that right there they had a round by round analysis of Malcolm boxing in prison. I remember getting up from the chair and I just… made a sound.” — Patrick Parr [23:47]

---

Notable Quotes

• On Biographical Focus:
  “There was very little… about their formative years.” — Patrick Parr [03:21]
• On the Book’s Unique Lens:
  “You are going to go to prison and you’re going to stand next to Malcolm X or Malcolm Little at that time as he begins to transform into the person he wants to be.” — Patrick Parr [06:15]
• On Sister Ella’s Influence:
  “Ella’s a person who doesn’t mind breaking the rules… I’d go more positive than negative. There was a strength there.” — Patrick Parr [13:22]
• On Prison Education:
  “Once he saw that prison library, a lot of stuff in his life from the past… just slid off a bit like snow…” — Patrick Parr [15:09]
• On FBI Surveillance:
  “That’s the domino effect right there. That’s the first domino that leads to this 13-year following. So that needed to be the beginning of that story.” — Patrick Parr [18:32]
• On Malcolm’s Search for Purpose:
  “All of them have a commonality and that’s purpose. I think Malcolm was truly deeply, with every fiber of his being, wondering what he was doing on this rock.” — Patrick Parr [21:10]
• On Research Discoveries:
  “This is why I do this stuff. Because when you find these treasures, these discoveries… that makes it worth it.” — Patrick Parr [24:10]

---

Key Timestamps

• 02:37 — Parr describes his origins as a biographer and interest in the age of 22.
• 05:19 — Differences between Malcolm Before X and previous Malcolm X biographies.
• 07:25 — The value and challenges of working with prison records.
• 10:35 — Structural choices in opening with the break-ins episode.
• 12:46 — Ella’s influence on Malcolm’s outlook and behavior.
• 15:06 — Malcolm’s intellectual self-education and its lifelong impact.
• 17:32 — FBI surveillance stemming from Malcolm’s first public Nation of Islam appearance.
• 21:10 — The importance of religious purpose for Malcolm and other inmates.
• 23:47 — Parr's discovery of Malcolm’s boxing match records in archive research.

---

Memorable Moments

• Parr’s enthusiastic story about finding the boxing record, feeling both the exhaustion and exhilaration typical of primary-source historical research ([23:45–24:47]).
• The open call for scholars to write a full biography on Ella, underlining the richness of secondary characters in Malcolm’s life ([14:20]; [25:21]).
• Honest discussion of the challenges in researching elusive aspects of Malcolm’s early life, providing a behind-the-scenes look at the biographer’s process.

---

Conclusion

Patrick Parr’s Malcolm Before X provides a richly detailed, humanizing account of Malcolm X’s transformative prison years—an era often glossed over in other biographies. Through meticulous research and narrative innovation, Parr offers fresh insights into the people, environments, and inner drives that fueled Malcolm’s evolution. This episode is essential listening for scholars of Malcolm X, lovers of biography, and anyone interested in the interplay between adversity, education, and personal transformation.

---

For further information or to contact Patrick Parr, visit patrickparr.com.

Transcript

[WhatsApp Advertiser]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. It's best enjoyed over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata delivering vacation vibes any way or anywhere you drink it. Find out [e-mail] drink responsibly Caribbean rum with real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands Pojoaaukee, Wisconsin all rights reserv.

[Home Depot Advertiser]

The holidays have arrived at the Home Depot and we're here to help bring the excitement with decor for every part of your home. Check out our wide assortment of easy to assemble pre lit trees so you can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating. And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with unique decor like one of our Santa inflatables. Whatever your style, find the right pieces at the right prices this holiday season at the Home Depot.

[Chelsea Harris]

Welcome to the New Books Network hello and welcome to New Books Network. I'm Chelsea Harris, Marketing and Sales Manager for the University of Massachusetts Press. I'm delighted to be joined today by Patrick Parr, author of Malcolm Before X. Drawing upon interviews, correspondence, and nearly 2,000 pages of never before used prison records, Malcolm Before X is the definitive examination of the prison years of civil rights icon Malcolm X. The book was a Kirkus Nonfiction Book of the year for 2024, a spectator best Book of the Year, and a finalist for the 2025 Asala Book Prize. Par is professor of English at Lakeland University, Japan. He is author of the Seminarian Martin Luther King Jr. Comes of age and his work has appeared in the Atlantic, Politico and USA Today and the American Prospect. Patrick, thank you so much for joining me.

[Patrick Parr]

Thank you so much, Chelsea. I appreciate it. Great, great to talk with you.

[Chelsea Harris]

Oh, so let's just jump into it. What initially drew you to Malcolm X and why did you decide to write a book about him?

[Patrick Parr]

Well, let's see. I guess it goes back all the way to 2012 and when I was struggling a little bit as a fiction writer, I realized I started to have this passion for Biography that really my wife coaxed out of me by asking me a lot of questions about what I read. So I went to the library one day, and I've always been obsessed with the age of 22 and how the early 20s sort of is like an intersection to our. Our lives and how things change at that point. And I wanted to know a lot about historical figures in the past, like Picasso or Einstein or Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. So I gathered about 40 names at that time, and I decided to make a book out of just those historical figures at the age of 22. And so when I did that, it was very interesting, of course, across the board. All of these people I had, I knew about, but I didn't really know what motivated them to become who they were. But when I was putting the book together, there were two people I couldn't really create a portrait for, and that would be Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. There was very little at that time in 2012 about their. I guess you could call their formative years. So I decided to dig in a bit more, and I started to get really obsessed with both of them. So I gathered research first on Martin Luther King quite a bit. That's why he's my first book, because it was much easier to find his stuff. There's institutions and archives in place for him, but for Malcolm, it is one wildly different. And that's why I thought I needed more time for Malcolm's book. And it ended up becoming an idea for a book, I'd say around about 2017 or so. And I knew I had to really go into prison to find where Malcolm became who he was because he entered prison at the age of 20. So that's where it started, I guess.

[Chelsea Harris]

I think you started. You started to touch on this a little bit. Your book is far from the only one about Malcolm X. Can you tell listeners how your book is different? What of. What does your book do that others don't?

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I should say that back in 2011, there was a biography about Manning Marable by Manning Marable, that was about Malcolm's complete life. And it really opened up a lot of new angles to see him. And Marable passed away right before his book was published, and that left a bit of a void. He needed to really roll out his book, I think, and put himself in front of that book for it to have even more impact. And then I'd say in 2020, the Paynes came out with their own biography and that also used interviews with the family. But as much as I love those books, those two, they're valuable, really good books that really add to Malcolm's life and legacy. But neither of them really touched upon his prison experience. I'd say Manning Marable devoted one chapter to it and a lot of that chapter is wrapped up in History of the Nation of Islam. Same with the Pains book, which very valuable, but it doesn't have that focus that with prison. So for me, I wanted Malcolm before X to be, you are going to go to prison and you're going to stand next to Malcolm X or Malcolm Little at that time as he begins to transform into the person he wants to be. And I wanted readers to really experience how somebody can go so low in life and yet still have the motivation and the inspiration to come out of that and become better. I feel that's a story for anyone almost at any point in time.

[Chelsea Harris]

So one of the things about the book is your research that you went to the prison, you got prison records. How did your use of those prison records and any other sources influence the way you told Malcolm's story?

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah, those prison files have given me new eyeglasses. Let's just say that I have, I definitely have lost quite a bit of vision because those files are so difficult to read upside down, they're scratched up, they're torn all the way through Scotch tape through them too. I still remember some pages clearly, but I'd say why. How I was able to get through those files was because every page brought a new angle to Malcolm's day to day life. Like I was starting to get his daily routine just by reading his files. Like I, at one point I had his daily schedule at Norfolk. I believe it's in chapter seven and eight in the book where I'm starting to see, okay, Malcolm gets up at this time. Oh, now he's going to eat breakfast. Oh, now he's going to school. Oh, he's going to go over the laundry now. And then I started to think, well, why don't I dig into to the geography of this prison which is Norfolk, and understand where he's going, what is he seeing when he walks to the laundry, what is he looking through at the library? What volumes of books are there? So it kept getting deeper and deeper into these research questions and I kept finding the answer eventually, which I don't know if researchers are listening to this but that can be a dangerous thing to get your questions answered eventually over and over again because it just leads to the hope of another question and another one which maybe that drives People a little bit crazy. But for me it was, it was fuel and I enjoyed it.

[Chelsea Harris]

That sounds like so much work. When you got the files. This is not one of the planned questions. When you got the files, were they like physical file folders or were things like digitally accessible?

[Patrick Parr]

Oh, good question. I've never been asked that. So I get a lot of the files digitally because this was during a quarantine time. But there were moments when I was getting prison files, for example, Beatrice and Joyce's. Who Beatrice being Malcolm's girlfriend before he went to prison. And those had to be sent by printed post. So in the post I would get this 300, 400 page block of typed pages that needed that. I would end up scanning them again, but they had to be given to me through printed. So behind me you can't see it, but this white shelf I've got folders and folders of these prison files that I printed out and have them organized. So that was how that worked for the most part.

[Chelsea Harris]

But yeah, that's so interesting. Your book opens with the story of the break ins, then moves back to Malcolm's childhood and young adulthood before shifting to the prison years. Why did you decide on that structure and what did you hope it would show readers?

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah, I fought with this quite a bit. Biographers always are a little bit self conscious about being too predictable with their structure because of course it could be he was born and then the end, you know, so they like to shake things up a bit. But there's usually a purpose behind there. And I, and I found it with Malcolm's robbery system that he put in place with his team. And I thought people need to understand why he went to prison and they need to make their own conclusions as to if he got the sentence he deserved or if there was, which there was a bias to his crimes compared to that of someone who is white who did the same thing. So I wanted really that up front. I wanted people to see what he stole, which is why I made these lists of all the items that he did or not he, but his team, which included Beatrice. I wanted everyone to see all the things that they took and I also wanted them to see that there was a human consequence of this. Right. There were other. They were going into a total of eight houses taking stuff and then there I wanted to mention the people's names of those houses, which was actually very hard to do it. It's not like it's just over in some book here it's upside down on the right corner of a prison File page. So those things were important for me to get the reader to feel. So when you feel that Malcolm goes to prison, you're like, oh, he got eight to 10 years. Okay, that was a lot of burglary. That was a lot of stuff that he did. And he would be the first to tell you, I think I don't really like to put thoughts into Malcolm's head because he passed away such long ago, but I think he'd say, yeah, I was supposed to go to prison.

[Chelsea Harris]

Malcolm's siblings, particularly Ella, play a powerful role in the book. How did these relationships shape his outlook and his choices?

[Patrick Parr]

Wow. Yeah. Ella. Wow. Ella's a book. Ella's a book. I'll try to be short with Ella, but somebody out there, if you're listening to this, write a book about Ella. I mean, there is one called the Seventh Child by Rodenell Collins. That's a memoir. But I think Ella shaped Malcolm greatly. So Malcolm moves to Boston when he's 15 years old. About. He has dropped out of school from Mason High School in Michigan. And Ella. Ella's a person who doesn't mind breaking the rules to get what she needs or breaking the law. And she gives Malcolm a place to stay. She encourages him to go to school, but he ends up not going. And Ella tries to keep Malcolm in line, but more than that, she lets him do what he wants. But Ella herself is not exactly a role model, I would say, at this point, for Malcolm. She's a strong woman. And I think that her certainty over her own life makes Malcolm understand women a bit more in a complicated fashion than how he pictured women back in Mason, Michigan. But Ella goes to jail sometimes. She shoplifts. She's someone who gets what she needs when she needs it. And I think Malcolm learned a lot from her. Some people, even in the family, think Ella was a negative influence. Some say positive. I'd go more positive than negative. There was a strength there. There was definitely a strength, especially after prison. I think she was a valuable presence in Malcolm's life.

[Chelsea Harris]

That makes sense. In chapter seven, you discuss how Malcolm's limited early education contrasted with the education during his prison years. You quote him as saying, many who hear me today will think I went to school far beyond eighth grade. This impression is due entirely to my prison studies. How did this period of. How did this period influence the leader he became and the way that he is remembered today?

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah, I think when Malcolm, especially when he went to Norfolk, once he saw that prison library, a lot of stuff in his life from the past. Just slid off a bit like snow that comes off of a sloped roof, you know, he was deep into the books and the collection that Norfolk had was unprecedented at the time. An actual public library would have been jealous to have that library outside the prison walls. They would have been joyous for that collection. That's partly to do with Lewis Parkhurst, who donated thousands of books to the prison. And I did a little digging on Parkhurst. It's in the book. And there's a moment where you find out that Parkhurst's 19 year old son had passed away. And he had been a bit of a troublemaker himself. Who knows if he had been destined to go to prison and maybe Parkhurst felt that. But with Parker's son passing away, I think it gave him a deep need to give to the library. Something that would help people who have went a wrong direction to come back into civilization a better person. So with Malcolm, when he goes to Norfolk, he has this massive library and then also he has debate and he has those chances to take what he's reading, what's really boiling, boiling up in him. And he gets to let it out in debate. He gets to say all these opinions that are coming to him and. And he also gets to have a refined education in public, speaking through the people who have, are part of the team, the lifers there who have been doing it for decades already. So that's part of it at Norfolk. That's a tough question, I must say though, because there is quite a bit to unspool with Malcolm at Norfolk.

[Chelsea Harris]

Right. And there's obviously much more in the book. After he was released, the FBI continued to monitor Malcolm. What motivated their continued monitoring and why did you choose to highlight this as a closing detail in the book?

[Patrick Parr]

Right, yes, the FBI. Right. I think a lot of people with Malcolm, they think of a couple things and unfortunately the FBI comes to mind. It's a 3, 600 page file that's massive and it goes over 12 years. But what I wanted to make very clear, which hadn't been clear in the other books, is just that when he was released, he was essentially free. He was on parole, but he had yet to declare publicly his devotion to the Nation of Islam. So the moment he stands up in Chicago and the moment Elijah Muhammad starts to address him directly. Elijah Muhammad already knowing Wilfred and Filbert closely, because Wilfred and Filbert, Malcolm's brothers, are a part of the Nation of Islam. As soon as Malcolm stands up in that moment, there's an FBI special agent in that crowd. And once they See, even the least bit of charisma in Malcolm's voice, his speech, the way he's talking to Elijah Muhammad, the way Elijah Muhammad is lauding him, I think that alerts the. Alerts the special agent to contact people back where Malcolm was in Boston. And that's the domino effect right there. That's the first domino that leads to this 13 year following. So that needed to be the beginning of that story. Hadn't really been clarified, I think, until the book. So I really needed that to be where we end the book. Plus, I don't know if I'll ever do the second half of his book. I don't know. That takes a lot more work and a lot more travel. Because if I did that second book, Malcolm After X, I guess you could call it, then I would say I need to go to Africa. I would need to follow Malcolm in his footsteps through there, through anywhere he had been. I've talked about this with a few other Malcolm X scholars. Just. We all feel that he deserves this big, massive, comprehensive book that's like a thousand pages, tells his entire story. So I think for me, when I. It's. It's something about my own research tastes. When somebody goes public, I tend to become private again. I tend to go away from that. And because I feel once somebody becomes a true public figure, they become more of the crowd than they are of their. Of themselves.

[Chelsea Harris]

Yeah. Like, there's a little bit of, like, I wouldn't say performance, but like the awareness that they are now a public figure.

[Patrick Parr]

Right, right. So their behavior has to change. I mean, of course they are still who they are, but there's that public image and that. I always feel that regardless of who you are, you can be a saint as a public figure, but it's still distorted from who you had been.

[Chelsea Harris]

Right. Because humans are humans.

[Patrick Parr]

Right.

[Chelsea Harris]

Like no one is perfect. In chapter six, you trace the thread of religion from Malcolm's early doubts to his deepening faith. How did his religious journey intersect with his other identities? And how did it contribute to his overall transformation?

[Patrick Parr]

Great question. I think I read a few dozen prison memoirs. And some of them, they found God, they found Christianity, some of them found Buddhism, some of them found Islam, but all of them have a commonality and that's purpose. I think Malcolm was truly deeply, with every fiber of his being, wondering what he was doing on this rock. I think he was wondering why. Why am I here? Why do I still need to be here? And what can I contribute and make. Make society better in some way that would Satisfy me. And I. I do think that's very human, that search, of course, especially when you're in prison and everybody, in a way, has forgotten you. And I think Malcolm found the Nation of Islam in a way that it gave him purpose and an apparatus to get back into society without being harmed too much by how society had hurt him in the first place. So that's the beginning of the religious search, I think, for Malcolm, and I think he found it by the time he goes back to Charlestown after Norfolk, he is renewed with this sense of purpose and drive to. Not just for himself to become better, but to help others who are still in the shadows.

[Chelsea Harris]

And my final question, are there any other takeaways that you want to share with readers?

[Patrick Parr]

Oh, yeah, sure. I hope. I. I shared this a couple times with a few readers through email, but I just want to bring up the revelation of boxing that I put in there. But that's one of them. I got a couple more. But I want readers who are writers themselves if they're listening to this, to. Maybe I'm echoing Robert Caro by the turn every page type thing, that mantra that he says. But it's the truth. Because I was in a library archive in University of Massachusetts, Boston, and I was there turning this massive book. It was just real dusty. I was sneezing every other page and just flipping pages, just trying to see where Malcolm was at Concord, which was a really empty chapter until that moment. I was almost close to deleting it because I thought, I can't get any sort of gravity to what Malcolm was doing. But then there it was, little versus Johnson. And I, I couldn't believe that right there they had a round by round analysis of Malcolm boxing in prison. And I, I remember getting up from the chair and I just, I, I made a sound. Nobody, thank God, nobody else was around me, but they thought I was probably insane. But my God, I can't believe this. And I, I just stood. I stood there for a sec, sat back, sat back down, and for like two or three minutes I thought, this is why I do this stuff. Because when you find these treasures, these discoveries of that hadn't been found yet, that. That makes it worth it. Yeah, that's one of them. Do I have another? I got so into the boxing one. I don't know if I have another one that is.

[Chelsea Harris]

Okay.

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah, yeah. Email me if you want to have any of those other ones.

[Chelsea Harris]

Right. And your author website is patrickparr.com.

[Patrick Parr]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Harris]

Very simple, very simple. Easy to remember. Patrick. Thank you. Again for talking with us. Us, all of us listeners as well, will be on the lookout for that Malcolm After X perhaps, or perhaps the Ella book.

[Patrick Parr]

Hey, you know what would make my day is if I find out, like in a year from now, I just am looking through the books released and I see that book, because that would be far better than myself writing that book. I would love to see if some other scholar can give it a new angle, give her a new life. So that would be fantastic.

[Chelsea Harris]

So everyone listening that is in fact called action Researcher. Write a book. We'd love to see it. Thank you.

[Patrick Parr]

Thank you. Limu Emu and Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Chelsea Harris]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Patrick Parr]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

[Chelsea Harris]

Liberty Savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates.

[Patrick Parr]

Excludes Massachusetts.