Podcast Summary

Podcast & Episode

Podcast: New Books Network – African Studies
Host: Eliza Prosperetti
Guest: Philip Janzen, Assistant Professor of History, University of Florida
Book: An Unformed Map: Geographies of Belonging Between Africa and the Caribbean (Duke UP, 2025)
Date: December 6, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with historian Philip Janzen about his new book, An Unformed Map. The conversation explores the complex trajectories of over 500 Caribbean individuals who moved, largely as colonial administrators and teachers, between the Caribbean and Africa from 1880 to 1940. The themes of belonging, diaspora, linguistic translation, and the ambiguities of colonial identities are woven throughout, with a particular focus on how these figures navigated their in-between status—simultaneously marginalized within colonial hierarchies and set apart from African populations. The podcast is also a reflective exploration of the research process, archival discoveries, and methodological approaches for writing histories that de-center the European metropole.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Book & Research Trajectory

• Janzen’s Project Evolution
  • Began as a graduate seminar paper on two Caribbean figures (René Maran & Félix Éboué) in Equatorial Africa ([03:28]).
  • Expanded upon hearing from historian Corinna Ray about an “Anglophone side” to the story.
  • Developed from a paper to an MA thesis, then a dissertation, and ultimately the book.
  • Quote ([03:28]):

    "On one hand, I joke that I’m still writing the same paper... On the other hand, I was very fortunate to have the professor, a mentor, who was not holding back on the problems with it. And that really allowed me to grow from it."

2. Who Were the Caribbean-Africa Migrants, and Why Did They Go?

• Motivations
  • Economic: Late 19th-century Caribbean economic hardship prompted migration as part of broader labor movements (to Panama, Costa Rica, Cuba, U.S., and Africa).
  • Ideological: Many saw Africa as an “imagined homeland,” motivated by post-slavery identities and colonial education ([06:52]).
  • Colonial Demand: British and French needed English- and French-speaking Black staff for colonies; believed Caribbeans would be "acclimatized" and could be paid less ([06:52]).
  • Quote ([06:52]):

    "There was... this attraction to an imagined homeland for most who were two or three generations removed from slavery. These ideas about Africa were totally informed by... colonial education [and] residues of slavery."

3. Double (and Triple) Marginalization and The "Unformed Map"

• Experiences in Africa

  • Caribbean migrants were marginalized by white colonial officials and viewed skeptically by Africans.
  • Not fully accepted by either colonizer or colonized:
    • Paid less, segregated, perceived as "civilized" compared to Africans but never truly part of the ruling class ([09:43]).
  • "In-betweenness" or “profound ambiguity and ambivalence” ([09:20]).
  • Quote ([11:51]):

    "It’s almost more than double marginalization. It’s sort of triple or quadruple... so many tensions at play."

• Title Explanation: “An Unformed Map”

  • Draws from Aimé Césaire’s poem describing Caribbean fragmentation and possibility ([13:41]).
  • "Unformed" captures both disintegration and the potential for new solidarities.
  • Quote ([14:48]):

    "It’s a peculiar adjective... [it] points to this sort of disintegration, something that had form, that has fallen apart... and at the same time... a possibility that will take shape."

4. Historiographical Contributions: Beyond the Metropole

• Decentering Paris & London

  • Past studies focus on diaspora politics in metropoles (Black London, Paris noir). Janzen focuses on the migrants’ experiences "in the periphery," e.g., in African colonies.
  • Critiques scholarship that, even when anti-imperial, centers Europe ([22:08]).
  • Quote ([23:58]):

    "Some of that scholarship built up in an aggregate can reinforce this sort of Metropolitan focus... that I don’t think is a good thing."

• Expanding the Idiom of Diaspora Beyond French & English

  • Attention to how diaspora is practiced in African languages—seen in Félix Éboué’s wordlists and ethnographic work ([25:00]).
  • Example: Éboué’s translation of "chef" in Sango/other languages, negotiating between indigenous and colonial meanings ([28:24]).
  • Quote ([28:24]):

    "The fact that he gives both of these [words for 'chef']... you realize what he did know about the history of Central Africa and colonial rule... this separation, creation of illegitimate leaders is just one example of that."

5. Ambiguous Politics and the “Bridge Generation”

• Not Always Anti-Colonial
  • Many figures (e.g., Éboué) believed in improving, rather than abolishing, colonial systems, while their intellectual work informed future generations ([31:03]).
  • Generation as "bridge": connected past and future; enabled later anti-colonial movements even if not fully part of them.
  • Fanon’s embrace of Éboué as symbolic despite political differences ([32:50]).
  • Quote ([33:42]):

    "These stories of this generation... tell us in some ways, maybe a bit more about the subsequent generation too, that their politics were always not always so easy to pin down."

6. Methodology: Poetry, Archives, and Researcher Reflexivity

• Archival Discovery: Jean Louis’ Suitcase

  • Discovered in Martinique: suitcase of 2,000+ poems by Henri Jean Louis, a Caribbean administrator and poet ([36:42]).
  • Dated poems allow tracing his physical and intellectual journeys.
  • Example: Shift from empire reform advocacy to support for African independence and socialism ([41:47]).
  • Powerful metaphor of the suitcase as both archive and symbol of mobility.
  • Quote ([41:47]):

    "You could... use his poems to track his physical trajectory, but I could also use them to track his intellectual trajectory."

• Author’s Rethinking of Historical Practice

  • Reflexive, inserts himself in narrative, discusses emotions and research process.
  • Moves away from strictly biographical or archival perspectives ([46:09]).
  • Quote ([48:00]):

    "For me, that trajectory was part of the process of writing this book. It was that realization...about how we can do research on colonialism and how we can use colonial archives or what their limits really are..."

• Embracing Speculation and Imagination in History

  • Uses "informed conjecture" to fill archival silences, inspired by Natalie Zemon Davis.
  • Cites the usefulness of providing richly contextualized, plausible narrative glue for the reader ([50:26]).
  • Quote ([52:46]):

    "Those kind of moments are useful, I found, for adding in some of that context, imagined context, but real context to frame some of the important moments in the book."

7. Future Research Directions

• Next Project:
  • Interested in "the writing of history in the period of decolonization" (1950s–70s), focusing on debates about history’s role (Fanon, Cheikh Anta Diop, Eric Williams, etc.).
  • Struggles with narrowing scope but sees potential in pairing figures for intellectual comparison ([54:02]).

Notable Quotes and Moments with Timestamps

• On the Unformed Map ([14:48]):
  “It’s a peculiar adjective... [it] points to this sort of disintegration... but there’s this implicit futurity in this word that suggests... something could be formed again.”

• On Double Marginalization ([11:51]):
  “It’s almost more than double marginalization. It’s sort of triple or quadruple because there’s all these different tensions at play.”

• On Language and Diaspora ([25:00]):
  "How was diaspora practiced in languages other than French and English?"

• On the Limits and Possibilities of Colonial Archives ([48:00]):
  “That trajectory was part of the process of writing this book... about how we can do research on colonialism and how we can use colonial archives or what their limits really are.”

• On Poet Jean Louis’ Suitcase ([41:47]):
  “You could... use his poems to track his physical trajectory, but I could also use them to track his intellectual trajectory.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:25] – Introduction & author’s background
• [03:28] – Origins of the book and initial research
• [06:50] – Who the Caribbean migrants to Africa were, and why they left
• [09:41] – Discussion of in-betweenness and multiple marginalizations
• [13:01] – Meanings behind the title "An Unformed Map"
• [19:29] – The book’s intervention in diaspora scholarship and the metropole
• [25:00] – Diaspora in languages beyond French/English; methods
• [28:24] – Wordlist example: translating “chef”
• [31:03] – The generational role and ambiguous politics
• [36:42] – Jean Louis, suitcase discovery, and poetry as archive
• [46:09] – Reflexive methodology and ‘breaking the fourth wall’
• [50:26] – On speculation, narrative, and the historian’s voice
• [53:38] – Next research directions

Conclusion

This episode is essential listening for scholars of African, Caribbean, or imperial history, as well as anyone interested in diaspora, language, and the challenges of reconstructing marginalized pasts. Janzen’s careful attention to methodology, language, and the emotional experience of research offer a model for writing history that is globally connected, methodologically transparent, and attuned to the silences and ambiguities of colonial archives. The episode balances intellectual rigor with engaging storytelling, making it relevant for research, teaching, and methodological reflection.