Podcast Summary

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of New Books in History (New Books Network), hosted by Charles Cotillo, features Professor Piotr Nowak discussing his book "After Jews: Essays on Political Theology, Shoah and the End of Man" (Anthem Press, 2025). The conversation delves deeply into the philosophical, theological, and historical themes explored in Nowak's essays—focusing on Jewish history, the Holocaust, the enduring conditions of violence in modernity, and questions of identity, culture, and nihilism. Throughout, Nowak provides critical reflections on European history, religious boundaries, collective memory, and the prospects for humanity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write This Book?

• Nowak addresses the motivations behind writing, distinguishing between writers “who go out to the people” and those who prefer to “meet the great dead writers. They are enough for me.” He places himself in the latter camp:
  • “I wrote a book about Jews, but even more so, I wrote it for Jews and from polis. Mostly for the dead ones. To commemorate the past presence.” (03:47)

2. Central Thesis of the Book

• Nowak delivers a stark warning about the perpetual possibility of destruction in human society:
  • [04:49] “The conditions that made the Holocaust possible have not been eliminated. The work of destruction can be repeated again at any moment. And that this is characteristic of the late capitalism...”

3. The Meaning of "After Jews"

• Nowak explains the provocative title, noting its citation from Marek Edelman, a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising:

  • [06:07] “The expression the word after Jews is not entirely my own... Marek Edelman... used this phrase in his book... ‘There are no Jews. There will never be any more.’ End of quote. I am just repeating his words.”

• He elaborates on Jewish identity and assimilation in America and Israel, underscoring loss and transformation.

4. Generational Memory & Polish Identity

• Nowak reflects on Polish memory, noting the distance of historical figures like Piłsudski and Dmowski from young Poles, but also the deep imprint of historical struggle:

  • [09:29] “[Young people] remember nothing. The names you've mentioned mean nothing to them. ...But for my generation, Dumovsky and Pusotski were people who wanted a free Poland at all costs...”

  • “[Every] Pole has this written in their national DNA, even if they don't know it, and this is why we will fight for our freedom to the very end.” (12:36)

5. Jewish Tradition as "Limiting"

• Nowak contrasts the exclusiveness of Judaism (“a closed, limiting culture”) with what he sees as the inclusivity and, sometimes, violence of Christianity:

  • “[Judaism] was entirely exclusive, dedicated to the Jews only. Christianity, to the contrary, remained open for everybody... but sometimes exclusive closed culture or religion is better because it is less aggressive.” (13:06–16:55)

• He points to the way difference is maintained, not invented, by Gentiles.

6. D.H. Lawrence and the Book of Revelation

• D.H. Lawrence was deeply entranced by the Apocalypse, which Nowak says influenced his worldview of resentment and revenge, differentiating between John the Evangelist and John of Patmos:
  • [18:29] “Lawrence, before he was 10 years old, read, as he says, the book of Revelation ten times. It doesn't matter how much he understood… the apocalypse lived in him from childhood throughout his eccentric life.”

7. Shakespeare’s Shylock and the Representation of Judaism

• Nowak interprets Shylock as a symbol both of marginalization and of common humanity. He praises Shylock’s humanity and legalistic obedience as “very Jewish”:

  • [20:40] “Shylock is... a moneylender, but he is not a swindler. …he protects himself as best as he can. …Shylock is a typical representative of humanity.”

  • He quotes Shylock’s famous speech: “I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes...” (22:00)

8. Fascism and Democracy: The Truths in Political Evil

• Nowak explores the darker side of democracy, referencing D.H. Lawrence’s criticism and Bertrand Russell’s unease:

  • [24:04] “In democracy... you can kill your political opponent with a newspaper like a mosquito. …Even fascism contains some truth that compelled 95% of Germans to support Hitler until the last days of their Third Reich.”

• He links the logic of "soft terrorization" and the Grand Inquisitor (Dostoevsky) to modern politics.

9. Jacob Taubes and Political Theology

• Nowak summarizes Taubes's thesis: Paul’s Christianity was as much about reshaping Judaism as converting Gentiles. Paul’s innovation was “strictly political”:
  • [29:18] “The universalism of Christianity... was conceived not only as a way of including pagans in the Jewish world, but more as a tool for converting the Jews themselves to the right path of salvation.”

10. The Closed Character of Jewish Culture

• Nowak characterizes Jewish communities as self-enclosed (“The Jews invented the ghetto and shut themselves inside.”), with few converts and little intermarriage:
  • [31:55] “Inside the ghetto, their culture and religion are exclusive...So you have a closed circle everywhere.”

11. W.G. Sebald, German Memory, and Collective Suffering

• Nowak brings in W.G. Sebald to discuss the bombing of Germany, the complicity and suffering of Germans, and the silence around these topics:

  • [32:47] “It was revenge for the destruction of Warsaw...the decision to carry out air raids was motivated by desire for retaliation, anger, a typically human need for mass destruction.”

• He reflects on his own upbringing in postwar Poland—“I was raised to hate Germans”—and the ambiguous place of victimhood.

12. Polish Poetry, Milosz, and Memory

• Nowak examines how Czesław Miłosz compiled postwar Polish poetry, controversially omitting poets who died in the war:
  • “[Milosz] published poems only by those who managed to survive the war...He mobilized the living against death, against the dead. …This anthology was created not for someone, but against someone, against poets who died and were killed during the war.” (44:00–46:51)

13. Nihilism as Process: Nietzsche’s Legacy

• On nihilism: “Nihilism…is not a social stereotype, nor is it a historical accident…It has no specific date of origin, nor does it have an authority. Nihilism is a process, rather an event...something from which there is no escape.” (48:30)

14. Political Correctness and Academic Freedom

• Nowak recalled his own public controversy, arguing for the right of professors to speak common sense amid accusations of intolerance:
  • “[T]his affair made me one of the famous professors in philosophy in Poland. All it took was a little courage and a defense of a common sense.” (50:40–54:12)

15. Immigration, Identity, and the Risks of Repetition

• Nowak is wary of third world immigration to Europe, distinguishing it from American history and fearing for both cultural loss and immigrant safety:

  • “I don't want to share with them because I remember how hard I worked for it...People who came here from Syria and Afghanistan don't know it…Poland didn't have its own colonies...We owe nothing to the Third World.” (56:01)

• He warns that the “conditions of the Holocaust” have not been removed and could threaten new groups (notably Muslims):

  • [59:42] “If I do not want Muslims in Europe, if I am terrified by their presence in Poland, it is because I fear for their fate…History likes to repeat itself...they will die here.”

16. Religiousness and the Shoah

• On the Shoah: “The wave of secularization...could neither be understood nor accepted by religious Jews...the racist theory...was merely a pretext...its real cause was the unenlightened religiosity of the chosen people…” (61:28)

17. Secularization and the Antichrist

• Nowak references Carl Schmitt and claims the present era is pre-apocalyptic, characterized by the “Antichrist”—meaning an era governed by secularized values, bereft of spirit:
  • [63:30] “The Antichrist is the time in which we live. It is a specific aura of the twilight of old important values. It is a radical revaluation of humanity.”

18. Final Message

• When asked for a single takeaway, Nowak responds:
  • [66:56] “It will only get worse.”
  • When pressed, he concludes: “No, no. This is excellent. Full stop to our conversation, because this I believe… Just. This is the message of my book...” (67:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[T]he conditions that made the Holocaust possible have not been eliminated...The work of destruction can be repeated again at any moment.” — Professor Piotr Nowak (04:49)
• “I wrote a book about Jews, but even more so, I wrote it for Jews and from polis. Mostly for the dead ones. To commemorate the past presence.” — Nowak (03:47)
• “[Every] Pole has this written in their national DNA...we will fight for our freedom to the very end.” — Nowak (12:36)
• “Jews are different than the rest of the world and we Gentiles did not invent their otherness.” — Nowak (14:17)
• “Shylock is a typical representative of humanity.” — Nowak (21:47)
• “Nihilism ... is a process, rather an event ... something from which there is no escape...” — Nowak (48:30)
• “If I do not want Muslims in Europe, if I am terrified by their presence in Poland, it is because I fear for their fate...they will die here. …the work of destruction can be repeated again and again at any moment.” — Nowak (59:42)
• “The Antichrist is the time in which we live...It is a specific aura of the twilight of old important values.” — Nowak (63:30)
• “It will only get worse.” — Nowak (66:56)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction & Motivation for Writing – 02:41–04:45
• Central Thesis – 04:49–05:57
• On the Title "After Jews" – 06:07–09:13
• Polish Generational Identity – 09:29–13:00
• Jewish Tradition as Limiting – 13:06–16:58
• D.H. Lawrence & Revelation – 18:29–20:30
• Shylock & Judaism – 20:40–23:58
• Fascism & Democracy – 24:04–29:06
• Taubes: Political Theology of St. Paul – 29:18–31:47
• On Closed Jewish Culture – 31:55–32:38
• Sebald, Bombing of Germany – 32:47–41:42
• On Polish Poets & Memory – 41:42–46:51
• Nihilism as Process – 48:19–49:32
• Political Correctness Controversy – 50:40–54:12
• Immigration & Cultural Tension – 54:12–59:25
• Holocaust Repetition & Muslims – 59:30–61:28
• Shoah & Religiousness – 61:28–63:19
• Antichrist & Secularization – 63:30–66:52
• Final Takeaway: Pessimism – 66:52–67:29

Tone and Delivery

The conversation is philosophical and deeply reflective, marked by Nowak’s somber, sometimes caustic tone. He speaks candidly—even provocatively—about loss, difference, violence, and skepticism toward both political correctness and progressive liberalism. His warnings are not tempered by hope; he “writes for the dead” and warns repeatedly that “it will only get worse.” The exchange is direct, unflinching, and intellectually challenging, offering no easy redemptive narratives.

This summary preserves the gravity, depth, and controversial edge of the original discussion and is meant for readers wishing to engage with the philosophical arguments and warnings at the heart of Piotr Nowak’s work.