Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Stephen Sikevich
Guest: Piotr Jacques (Piotr Pietrzak)
Episode: "Strengthening International Relations Through Transformative Theory and Practice"
Date: October 18, 2025

This episode centers on Piotr Jacques’s edited volume, an ambitious collection that seeks to challenge established international relations (IR) theory paradigms by re-centering Kantian idealism and advocating for a transformative, multidisciplinary approach. The conversation explores the origins and evolution of IR, key philosophical influences (with a strong emphasis on Kant), the problematics of predominant paradigms, evolving concepts like transnationalism and cognitive warfare, and the practical implications for global politics today—including India-Pakistan relations and the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Motivation and Intellectual Genesis of the Book

• Origins: Jacques describes the project as “an attempt to re-examine the quiet ‘Big Bang’ of IR theory,” drawing on discussions with his son about the actual origins of the discipline ([03:34]).

  • Jacques challenges the widely held belief that E.H. Carr established IR as a discipline, emphasizing Kant’s “Perpetual Peace” as the true moral starting point.
  • Notable Quote:

  “We forget about Immanuel Kant and his Perpetual Peace, which was also in a way a big bang of international relations, because it was quiet, it was a moral explosion…” — Jacques ([05:00])

• Project Structure: The book is an edited collection, with chapters by scholars from diverse backgrounds—India, Pakistan, Turkey, Greece—reflecting real-world collaboration and a commitment to bridging theory and practice ([07:22]).

2. Reevaluating the Foundations: Kant, Carr, and the Limits of Dualism

• IR Paradigms:

  • The traditional dichotomy (realism vs. liberalism) stems from Carr and Machiavelli (realism) versus Kant (liberalism).

  • Jacques calls this framing reductionist, missing out on the rich complexity offered by earlier and alternative philosophies:

    “…framing it in the way that there is basically realism or liberalism or as Carr suggested…is not showing the full perspective…” ([11:00])

  • He argues for lifting Kant to the foreground, positioning him as a crucial corrective to the limitations of structural realism and liberal reductionism.

• Philosophers' Range:

  • Advocates for drawing from Plato, Aristotle, Habermas, Derrida—not just IR “canon” figures ([14:27]).

• On Taking Authority for Granted:

  • Cautions against simplistic readings, especially of “young Kant.” Suggests focusing on late Kant for moral clarity ([14:27]).
  • Memorable Metaphor:

  “If you compare, for instance, Carr to Kant, it will be like comparing Trabant to Mercedes…” ([15:47])

3. Kant, Idealism, and Practical Impact

• Kant’s Copernican Revolution:

  • Kant revolutionized not just philosophy, but influenced systems of law, social science (e.g., Max Weber), and concepts like peaceful trade ([20:18]).
  • Notable Quote:

  “Kant is one of the first modern philosophers who came up with the idea that instead of waging wars there is a hope we can live peacefully if we trade…” ([20:38])

  • However, Kantian ideas are not naïve—especially in the context of persistent war and the limitations revealed after major conflicts or recent geopolitical events ([21:59]).

• Kant’s Influence Beyond Philosophy:

  • Jacques points to Kant as a foundational thinker behind the European Union and United Nations as (imperfect) realizations of perpetual peace ([21:59]).

4. Broadening the Scope: Geopolitics, Transnationalism, and Hyperland

• Classical Geopolitics vs. Modern Critique:

  • Disavows the outdated, hegemonic interpretations tied to German “offensive geopolitics.”
  • Proposes an updated geopolitics oriented around shared stability, informed by Kantian idealism ([24:33]).
  • Quote:

  “If we don’t perceive geopolitics as a pursuit of dominance, but [as] the pursuit of global stability, that could be an idea which could be interesting…” ([24:33])

• The ‘Hyperland’ Thesis:

  • The chapter by Georgios Koukakis introduces “hyperland,” proposing that 21st-century power is rooted not just in territory, but information, cyberspace, and technological superiority ([26:17]).
  • Quote:

  “In the 21st century, information is something we should pursue…not the expansion of land but protection through cybersecurity…” ([27:20])

• Transnationalism and Identity:

  • Discusses the paradox of intensifying global interconnectedness vs. deepening root in identity (diasporic ties, tribalism, etc.).
  • IR must broaden its framework to account for these “transformative identities” and the resulting shifts in world order ([30:00]).

5. Case Studies: From Regional Conflicts to Global Order

• India-Pakistan Relations:

  • They exemplify power asymmetries, nuclear dynamics, and how local factors (including water politics) shape global stability ([32:23]).
  • Links to broader interactions involving China, Russia, and the West ([36:14]).
  • Quote:

  “India is much stronger…Pakistan is definitely not as strong as even Iran…[creating] a power vacuum…complicated in terms of regional stability.” ([32:48])

• Water in Israeli-Palestinian Conflict:

  • Control of water as a tool of power, humanitarian challenges, and shifting policies are explored ([37:43]).
  • Educational manipulation (removal of Oslo Accords references by Hamas) is discussed as a case of “cognitive warfare.”

6. Cognitive Warfare and the Moral Gaps of Authority

• Cognitive Warfare:

  • IR today is shaped as much by narrative manipulation as by tanks and treaties. Jacques’s research focuses on how people’s minds, beliefs, and perceptions become battlegrounds ([42:31]).

• Kant and Civil Disobedience:

  • Late Kant supports opposition to authorities that do harm, emphasizing moral autonomy over blind obedience ([42:55]).

  • Provides historical examples of Kantian “misuse” (Eichmann, Robespierre, Scruton, etc.) to illustrate the importance of interpreting Kant correctly.

  • Essence of Kant (summed up):

  “Use your brain, use your brain, nothing else matters.” ([47:30])

• Instrumentalization of Kant:

  • Kant’s ideas are routinely misused or cherry-picked to justify political actions—Jacques insists this is antithetical to the mature Kantian project ([47:00–48:43]).

7. The Kantian Tradition and Its Relevance Today

• How to Strengthen Kantianism in IR:

  • Jacques urges scholars and practitioners to read Kant deeply—not superficially—and to see his idealism as a process, not utopian delusion ([50:38]).

  • Acknowledges the challenge of defending Kant in an often cynical, realist world (see Russia-Ukraine war, 2022), but insists incremental application of Kant can drive real progress.

  • Quote:

  “If we start reading Kant, all of us…we can actually come to our senses quicker.” ([54:40])

• Balance between Realism and Idealism:

  • Recalls even E.H. Carr admitted the necessity of some utopianism—Jacques advocates an Aristotelian “golden mean” ([56:19]).
  • Yet, realists often erase Kant from the conversation, which Jacques critiques directly:

  “That’s the problem which I have with the realists: they basically dismiss Kant. I’m just asking them to acknowledge that Kant existed…” ([57:09])

8. Concluding Reflections and Final Thoughts

• Call for Re-examination:

  • Invites listeners to question why the “Big Bang” of IR was so quiet, and why Kant’s influence is often sidelined.
  • Suggests that integrating Kantian idealism into debates can make our worldview “a little bit more positive, a little less chaotic…” ([59:22])

• Current and Future Work:

  • Jacques is researching “cognitive warfare” and “software-defined warfare,” as well as projects on Syria and Ukraine, aiming to apply Kantian thought to these issues ([62:20]).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "We forget about Immanuel Kant and his Perpetual Peace, which was also in a way a big bang of international relations, because it was quiet, it was a moral explosion…" —Piotr Jacques ([05:00])

• "If you compare, for instance, Carr to Kant, it will be like comparing Trabant to Mercedes…" —Piotr Jacques ([15:47])

• "Kant is one of the first modern philosophers who came up with the idea that instead of waging wars there is a hope we can live peacefully if we trade…" —Piotr Jacques ([20:38])

• "If we don’t perceive geopolitics as a pursuit of dominance, but [as] the pursuit of global stability, that could be an idea which could be interesting…" —Piotr Jacques ([24:33])

• "Use your brain, use your brain, nothing else matters." —Piotr Jacques’s summary of Kant ([47:30])

• "If we start reading Kant, all of us…we can actually come to our senses quicker." —Piotr Jacques ([54:40])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:34] – Origins and backstory of the book
• [06:51] – Assembling an international team of scholars
• [10:36] – On the realism/liberalism dichotomy and its limitations
• [14:27] – The deeper roots of political philosophy in IR (Plato, Aristotle, Socrates)
• [20:18] – Kant’s wider impact on social sciences and law; trade as peace
• [24:33] – Geopolitics, past and present; the case for stability
• [26:17] – ‘Hyperland’ thesis: cyberspace, information, and power
• [30:00] – Transnationalism and transformations in identity
• [32:23] – India-Pakistan relations: power asymmetries and global implications
• [37:43] – Water as a factor in Israeli-Palestinian conflict; cognitive warfare via education
• [42:31] – Cognitive warfare, civil disobedience, and Kantian morality
• [50:38] – Strengthening the Kantian tradition in IR
• [56:19] – The “golden mean” between idealism and realism
• [59:22] – Final thoughts and calls for Kantian reflection
• [62:20] – Jacques’s current projects and closing statements

Takeaways for Listeners

• The edited book challenges the “loud” debates of IR with the “silent revolution” of Kantian thinking.
• Jacques urges scholars and practitioners not to exclude idealist voices like Kant—arguing that a holistic, historically aware approach will yield more relevant solutions.
• Key real-world issues—geopolitics, identity, cognitive warfare—are not just technical or material but fundamentally philosophical and moral.
• The episode is a call to re-engage with foundational texts, resist dogmatism, and seek a balance (the “golden mean”) between the extremes of naiveté and cynicism in global politics.

This detailed summary brings together the most salient themes and intellectual moments of the episode, offering a roadmap for anyone interested in the evolving debates of international relations and the enduring relevance of philosophical inquiry.