Podcast Summary: Radio ReOrient 13.9: “Everyday Islamophobia” with Peter Hopkins

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Radio ReOrient 13.9
Host(s): Claudia Radiven, Chella Ward, Saeed Khan
Guest: Peter Hopkins
Date: December 12, 2025

Main Theme

This episode of Radio ReOrient explores the concepts, impact, and structural underpinnings of Islamophobia, drawing from Peter Hopkins' latest book, Everyday Islamophobia. The conversation critically addresses how Islamophobia manifests in daily life, policy, education, politics, and global contexts. The hosts and guest engage in a nuanced discussion about mainstreaming, definition debates, and the effectiveness of current countermeasures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking “Everyday” Islamophobia

• Broadening the Definition:

  • Peter Hopkins challenges the perception of “everyday Islamophobia” as only mundane, trivial incidents. He argues for an understanding that connects interpersonal encounters with larger, structural and global networks of anti-Muslim prejudice.
  • Quote:
    • “It's not just this everyday thing... It's also interconnected with broader global politics, things that people say on the news, politicians... It's created a whole network of issues and factors.” (Peter Hopkins, 02:48)

• Structural Interplay:

  • Islamophobia is both an interpersonal and a structural phenomenon. Microaggressions and individual acts are inseparable from institutionalized policies and societal narratives.
  • Quote:
    • “It doesn't happen in isolation or echo chambers.” (Chella Ward, 03:54)

2. Peter Hopkins’ Personal Academic Journey

• Background Influence:
  • As a white, non-Muslim, Scottish researcher, Hopkins was shaped by his schooling, diverse classmates, and a radical religious studies curriculum that explored Islam alongside other worldviews.
  • Discrepancy between the peaceful, charitable aspects of Islam learned academically and the negative media narratives sparked Hopkins’ critical interest in the field.
  • Post-9/11, the absence of scholarship on young Muslim men led Hopkins to focus his PhD research on this group.
  • Quote:
    • “I was really struck by... how different the narrative was on the ground, in the street... This is a religion of peace... and then there was what I was hearing... in the mainstream news.” (Peter Hopkins, 04:18)

3. Policy as a Vector of Islamophobia: The Case of PREVENT

• Surveillance Culture:
  • The British government’s PREVENT strategy and similar policies institutionalize suspicion, especially within educational settings and frequently target Muslim students and communities.
  • Hopkins recounts experiences of institutional surveillance, increased monitoring of Muslim student groups, and routine scrutiny justified under the guise of safety.
  • The proliferation of paperwork and administrative burdens within academia is seen as a manifestation of these policies.
  • Quote:
    • “It might seem quite trivial and low level, but... there's a lot of monitoring and surveillance going on.” (Peter Hopkins, 08:56)
    • “They end up with this sort of layer of surveillance that I think is just unhelpful and... it just shouldn't happen.” (Peter Hopkins, 10:40)

4. Transnational and Global Dimensions

• Policy Borrowing and Global Networks:
  • Islamophobic policies aren’t isolated; countries replicate each other’s counterterrorism strategies. For example, UK’s PREVENT draws on Dutch models, and similar methods are deployed in China against Uyghurs.
  • Far-right, Islamophobic ideas propagate rapidly via social media and international networks, influencing high-profile acts of violence and policy formation worldwide.
  • Quote:
    • “You end up having this sort of transnational almost network of sharing bad policy... it's almost like all these different countries are... copying each other.” (Peter Hopkins, 13:23)
    • “People can just share a set of blog posts that are really explicitly Islamophobic and they can be shared really widely around the world.” (Peter Hopkins, 13:23)

5. The Battle Over Definitions

• Endless Debates as Distraction:

  • Politicians and institutions avoid addressing Islamophobia directly by endlessly debating definitions—whether to use “Islamophobia” or “anti-Muslim hatred”—thus deflecting from actionable change.
  • Such definitional ambiguity contributes to the normalization and mainstreaming of Islamophobia, allowing perpetrators to claim plausible deniability or invoke free speech.
  • Absence or ambiguity in official documents serves as a form of silencing and erasure.
  • Quote:
    • “We just seem to be in this endless cycle of debate and definitions... To me, it's like a crystal clear example of Islamophobia in action.” (Peter Hopkins, 17:55)

• Mainstreaming of Far-Right Narratives:

  • Hostile rhetoric regarding asylum seekers, refugees, and “the other” enters mainstream politics, with both right-wing and centrist parties amplifying far-right talking points.
  • Quote:
    • “Far right ideas have increasingly found their way into mainstream narratives and politics and discussion... the mainstream that are doing it.” (Peter Hopkins, 20:45)

6. Limits and Obstacles in Countering Islamophobia

• Structural Hindrances:
  • While grassroots initiatives, educational toolkits, and counter-narratives exist, their efficacy is limited so long as structural mechanisms (such as the “Islamophobia industrial complex”) remain entrenched.
  • Changing entrenched institutional attitudes, especially those shaped by decades of policies like PREVENT, is a significant challenge even if policies are formally abolished.
  • Quote:
    • “You have to stop prevent-like thinking... There's a whole generation of people that have been trained for like 20, 30 years in this way of thinking.” (Peter Hopkins, 24:17)

7. Islamophobia, Citizenship, and Political Participation

• Impact on Political Life:
  • Islamophobia influences Muslims’ engagement with citizenship and politics. It can both spur activism and political participation due to anger, or, conversely, suppress these out of fear of being regarded with suspicion or as a threat.
  • Shifts engagement into community-based activism versus formal political channels.
  • Quote:
    • “Some young people were really angry about Islamophobia and it almost motivated them to become more political... But there was others who, Islamophobia essentially silenced them.” (Peter Hopkins, 28:10)

8. Reflections and Roundtable Discussion

• Critique of “Microaggressions” Focus:

  • Hopkins’ treatment reveals the inadequacy of focusing solely on interpersonal “microaggressions” or “hostility,” which fails to address structural and historic dimensions.
  • The debate over terminology minimizes broader systemic injustices and can be a conscious form of distraction, similar to arguments about etymology.
  • Quote:
    • “Hostility, hatred, microaggressions seem to fail to capture the broader structural and systemic dimensions of Islamophobia...” (Chella Ward, 31:05)
    • “All this endless conversation about the term Islamophobia is a kind of distraction tactic. The real function of racism is to prevent you from actually doing the work.” (Radio Reorient Narrator, 33:59)

• Islamophobia as Historiographical:

  • Reducing Islamophobia to present-day acts misses its historical roots—how it has been used to justify violence, disenfranchisement, and denial of rights to Muslim populations globally.
  • Quote:
    • “It makes it something that's only presentist... It stops us from seeing all the ways that... Islamophobia is historiographical.” (Radio Reorient Narrator, 33:59)

• Good Muslim/Bad Muslim Binary:

  • Saeed Khan references the construction of binary “good” vs. “bad” Muslim identities as a means for powerful actors to assert control and marginalize communities.
  • Referencing political events (e.g., visits to the White House) and Mahmood Mamdani’s work.
  • Quote:
    • “For Muslims, it's absolutely personal. And you see how this has played out... Hopkins is providing us with a template... to locate the current expression of Islamophobia... as this larger narrative vis a vis power.” (Saeed Khan, 37:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “What I've tried to do is to propose a definition of everyday Islamophobia... it’s not just this everyday thing that happens at a bus stop. It's interconnected with broader global politics.” (Peter Hopkins, 02:48)

• “The absence there is that you just don't have a definition of Islamophobia. So... it's sort of rendered invalid and not significant.” (Peter Hopkins, 17:55)

• “These policies... even though they don't work... still get shared and you end up having this sort of transnational almost network of sharing bad policy.” (Peter Hopkins, 13:23)

• “People can just share a set of blog posts that are really explicitly Islamophobic and they can be shared really widely around the world.” (Peter Hopkins, 13:23)

• “It’s been shown in so many studies that [PREVENT] doesn't work and it creates more harm than good, but it kind of continues to happen.” (Peter Hopkins, 08:56)

• “Hostility, hatred, microaggressions seem to fail to capture the broader structural and systemic dimensions of Islamophobia...” (Chella Ward, 31:05)

• “All of this endless conversation about the term Islamophobia is a kind of distraction tactic... The real function of racism is being distraction, preventing you from actually doing the work.” (Radio Reorient Narrator, 33:59)

Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• [02:48] - Hopkins on rethinking “everyday” Islamophobia and the need for a substantive definition
• [04:18] - Hopkins’ personal and academic background shaping his interest in Islamophobia
• [08:56] - Detailed discussion of PREVENT and surveillance in educational institutions
• [13:23] - The transnational sharing of Islamophobic policies and media narratives
• [17:55] - The definitional debate and its role as a form of silencing and the mainstreaming of Islamophobia
• [24:17] - Countering Islamophobia: structural obstacles and the limits of grassroots initiatives
• [28:10] - Islamophobia's effect on political participation and everyday citizenship among Muslims
• [31:05] - Roundtable reflections on the limitations of focusing on microaggressions and narrow definitions
• [33:59] - Structural and historiographical analysis of Islamophobia, and the distraction of definitional debate

Tone and Language

The conversation is scholarly yet accessible, sometimes passionate, and shaped by a critical decolonial perspective. Participants often use firsthand examples and reference recent political events, academic debates, and activist interventions. The tone is urgent, serious, and pointedly critical of policy and political inertia.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode provides an in-depth exploration of how Islamophobia is woven into everyday life and public policy, and how efforts to combat it are hobbled by policy inertia and endless debates over definitions. Peter Hopkins emphasizes that “everyday” discrimination isn’t trivial but part of systemic structures reinforced by global policy-sharing, media narratives, and state surveillance—especially visible in programs like PREVENT. The conversation contends that focusing solely on definitions or interpersonal acts is a distraction from recognizing and dismantling the structural and historical roots of Islamophobia. Ending this podcast, listeners are left with both a deeper understanding of everyday Islamophobia’s reach and an appreciation for the urgent need for structural change.

Book Mentioned:
Everyday Islamophobia by Peter Hopkins

Upcoming:
Special issue of ReOrient on Everyday Islamophobia (2026)