Podcast Summary: Rob Kutner, "The Jews: 5,000 Years and Counting" (Wicked Son, 2025)

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Paul Lerner
Guest: Rob Kutner
Date: February 4, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features an engaging conversation between host Paul Lerner and acclaimed comedy writer and author Rob Kutner, discussing Kutner’s book, "The Jews: 5,000 Years and Counting." The book is a satirical, yet historically rooted journey through Jewish history, combining humor with insight in first-person vignettes from biblical times through the modern era. The conversation explores Kutner's comedic approach, the challenges of addressing tragic historical events with humor, and the balance between reverence and irreverence in engaging Jewish audiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Rob Kutner’s Comedy Roots and Path to the Book

• Comedy Origins: Kutner shares that an early inclination for humor made him "super annoying in school" but didn't seem like a career until deep into college, despite an academic background in anthropology and Russian studies.
  “Everything I was doing was sort of comedy related, all my extracurriculars. And at some point it just all occurred to me that like, that was where I was gravity.” (02:42)
• Book Genesis: The book emerged when Wicked Son Press sought a comic, accessible summation of Jewish history, potentially as a lively introduction for teens and young adults. “A Jewish summation of Jewish history with a comedic sort of engaging, entertaining angle… might be a way to keep them engaged in Jewish history.” (03:49)

The Purpose and Tone of the Book

• Mixing Laughter and Darkness: The hosts discuss the value and necessity of humor, especially during difficult times for Jews—an importance underlined by both historical recurrence and contemporary events since October 7, 2023. “It did start before October 7th… It was like Jewish history was sort of ripped wide open, I think again and thrown into question.” (06:13)
• Humor as Resilience: Kutner sees humor as both a Jewish defense mechanism and a way to process trauma, stating, “all these bad things happen, but we worked it out in the end.” (06:13)

Approaching Dark Chapters with Comedy

• Reading from the Book – The Middle Ages: Kutner delivers a sample from the ‘Medieval Times’ chapter, showing his irreverent, satirical style while grounding the narrative in facts (09:12–14:32).

  “No wonder people enjoy spending their weekends dressing up and reliving this magical period.” (09:41)
  “Jews were forced to live in designated areas... That’s right, we invented [ghettos], too. Prophet sharing. That’s spelled P-R-O-P-H-E-T.” (10:41)

  • Blends jokes about feudalism and bubonic plague with pointed observations about the scapegoating and persecution of Jews.

• The Limits and Ethics of Humor in Historical Tragedy:
  Kutner and Lerner examine how humor can—and should—be deployed when covering atrocities like the Holocaust.

  “I struggled quite a bit...with the Holocaust chapter of how to even, like, engage that as a humor topic. That actually became a fight between me and the editor, which I ended up just turning into the chapter, literally.” (15:04)

  • Kutner decided to make the Holocaust chapter an explicit meta-conversation between himself and his editor, using the process itself as content.

• Targeting the Right Subject:

  “You don’t make light of the victim’s suffering... You have to kind of go after the perpetrators. So you’ll notice I was kind of picky on basically... the perpetrators of Christian and Arab oppression.” (15:04)

  • Emphasizes that humor should never diminish suffering; instead, he skewers oppressors and highlights absurdity to disinfect dark histories.

Balancing Reverence, Satire, and Perspective

• Navigating Intra-Community Critique: Kutner notes he felt comfortable “airing our dirty laundry” to a Jewish audience—poking fun at all Jewish denominations, but doing so from a place of affection:

  “Can you write something critical of Jews? Yes, for a Jewish audience you can.” (28:54)

  • Maintains a “baseline reverence” even while satirizing.

• Political and Historical Uncertainty:

  • Kutner articulates the challenge of writing history in fast-changing times, admitting that post–October 7 context made it difficult to land certain jokes, especially about Israel and the diaspora.

  “I consider myself pretty centrist... I live in an uncomfortable middle. I don’t have a real certainty of being super critical of Israel or being super, like, supportive.” (21:34)

Differences Between Book and TV Comedy Writing

• Audience and Timelessness:

  “If you’re a late night show, you’re going to make references of the moment. I was very conscious of not putting in references that were like, pop culture references of the moment.” (30:39)

  • Kutner avoids topical pop culture in the book to keep the work relevant over time.

• Approach and Style:

  • While his comedic sensibility remains, he adopts a more relaxed, “insider” tone for Jewish readers.
  • Expresses preference for “pattern-building” and large-scale perspective in his books, contrasting with the immediacy of TV.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Role of Humor in Jewish History:
  “I think that when you’re taking on a Jewish subject, it’s a disservice not to try to engage with it, even if you don’t succeed at it.” (15:04)
• Meta-Approach to the Holocaust:
  “I wanted to just put this chapter intentionally. Left blank was sort of my first approach... maybe that just this process was where the interesting part of the discussion was.” (15:34)
• Comedy as a Jewish Instinct:
  “The comedic bent for comedy or the restless minds. Maybe the two of them just go hand in hand.” (26:50)

Important Segments and Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | | ------- | ----------- | --------- | | Kutner’s comedic genesis | Early career and why comedy | 02:42 | | Book genesis & intended tone | How the project came together | 03:49–06:00 | | Jewish humor and history post-Oct 7 | Book’s shifting purposes | 06:07–08:47 | | Sample reading: “Medieval Times” | Demonstrates book’s voice | 09:12–14:32 | | Ethics of joking about tragedy | Holocaust chapter process | 15:04–19:19 | | Mel Brooks & comedic precedents | Influence and limitations | 18:45–20:29 | | Editing, omissions, what to include | History as a work-in-progress | 21:13–25:57 | | Audience and self-deprecation | Writing for Jews vs. general audience | 27:54–30:33 | | Writing for TV vs. books | Style and temporal perspective | 30:33–33:08 | | Upcoming projects | What Kutner is working on next | 33:46–35:28 |

Closing Updates & Projects

• Kutner is working on a children’s graphic novel about cats with a YouTube channel (due 2026), and co-hosting a new podcast with the Federation of Jewish Men’s Clubs—blending comedy and honest discussion about Jewish masculinity, with guests like Josh Malina, Jake Tapper, and Edgar Keret.
  “We bring a light touch to it where he’s the sort of, you know, spiritual guy that I’m kind of the comedian.” (33:46)

Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode’s tone is warm, irreverent, and intellectually lively—characteristic of both the comedian's and historian’s approaches. The conversation shows the power of comedy to bring connection and fresh perspective to Jewish history while never losing sight of historical trauma or reverence for cultural survival.

For Further Exploration

• Those interested in “The Jews: 5,000 Years and Counting” will find it satirical, accessible, and surprisingly reverent—a perfect entry point for readers (especially young adults) seeking to learn about Jewish history through laughter.
• Stay tuned for Kutner’s future projects and his ongoing explorations of Jewish identity, comedy, and cultural resilience.