Podcast Summary: New Books Network – Resurrecting the Past: France’s Forgotten Heritage Mandate (Cornell UP, 2025)

Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Sarah Griswold
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Miranda Melcher interviews Dr. Sarah Griswold about her new book, Resurrecting the Past: France’s Forgotten Heritage Mandate. The conversation dives into France’s post-World War I mandate in Syria and Lebanon—the Levant—and investigates how debates over cultural heritage became surprisingly central to the French colonial project in the region. Dr. Griswold’s research uncovers the political, religious, and cultural stakes of heritage policies and reveals unexpected alliances, power struggles, and adaptations by diverse actors from French officials to local archaeologists.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of the Project and Its Central Questions

• Sarah Griswold’s background: Trained as both a historian and a museum professional, Dr. Griswold’s interest lies in understanding how cultural objects function as political tools. (02:35)
• Her research began with a curiosity about the French state’s use of heritage to bolster national identity and prestige at a time when France’s status was in flux after World War I.
• Key Question: Why did the French Mandate in Syria and Lebanon (often a peripheral topic for French historians) matter so much to French government and cultural leaders after 1918?
• Quote:

  “I gradually came to see heritage... not just as a facet of Mandate policies, but really the heart of the Mandate's logic.” (07:44)

2. Political and Conceptual Goals of the French Mandate (1918 Onwards)

• In the wake of WWI, France lobbied to control large parts of the Eastern Mediterranean (the ‘Holy Land’), drawing on centuries-old claims of being the Catholic protector in the region. (09:59)
• “Syrianist” lobbying in Paris by mostly French (not local) actors argued for a French role rooted in religious—and also cultural—historical narratives.
• The Mandate was shaped by pre-existing fractures in French politics: tension between Catholic and secular identities played out in ambitions for the Levant. (12:50)
• Quote:

  “There’s real argument there that the desire for this quote, unquote, French Holy Land comes out of real theological motives...” (12:50)

3. Adaptation to Geopolitical Realities: Heritage Focus after 1920

• Following the Treaty of San Remo (1920), France’s hopes for controlling Palestine were dashed; focus shifted to cultivating heritage in Syria and Lebanon—the lands they did secure. (16:27)
• The French turned from targeting recent Catholic Maronite sites (which proved difficult and less compelling for French heritage officials) to focusing on monumental Crusader sites: castles and fortresses.
• Crusader sites blended religious and secular appeal, enabling a more inclusive, secular myth of French civilization—a shift from religious devotion to cultural nationalism.
• Quote:

  “The Crusades are really kind of deep enough and... mythical enough in French memory by the 20th century that they appeal to a lot more people. They can represent French culture, not just French cults...” (20:38)

4. Crusader Castles as Political and Cultural Assets

• The castles were located in regions where France exerted strong control and could operate with fewer local barriers (Alawite state). (23:17)
• The regime used images and rhetoric about the Crusader castles to legitimize their authority, drum up public support in France, and attract tourism (despite logistical failures).
• Crusader castles became symbols of France’s historical destiny, even as practical travel to them proved difficult for French tourists.

5. Expanding the Heritage Agenda: Damascus and Islamic Heritage

• From late 1920s, after the brutal suppression of the Great Syrian Revolt, the French regime attempted to showcase their “pluralism” and commitment to fostering future nations (Syria & Lebanon) through their role as caretakers of Islamic heritage in Damascus. (27:24)
• French officials worked more closely with Syrian curators (notably Jafar Al Hasani, who trained at the Louvre); collaboration was both genuine and instrumental, meant to restore legitimacy after military violence.
• Discovery of early Islamic mosaics in the Umayyad Mosque allowed the French to narrate a history of convergence between Islamic and Christian civilizations.
• Quote:

  “...what they find when they find these mosaics is that they feature Byzantine materials and craft. And so this offers a really useful past for making an argument... of convergence and coexistence between early Islam and early Christianity.” (29:33)

6. Collaboration, Conflict, and Power Dynamics in Heritage Work

• Decision-making around excavations or museum exhibits involved complex relationships among French officials, local elites, and oversight from the League of Nations. (32:05)
• Despite French dominance, local Syrian and Lebanese actors, particularly elite curators and archaeologists, negotiated autonomy and priorities.
• International actors (British, Danish, American archaeologists) further complicated the heritage landscape, as “open door” excavation policies (mandated by the League of Nations) both enabled collaboration and fueled competition.
• Quote:

  “I would say that on balance, the French still come out as having... an asymmetrical amount of power. They hold the pen and the paperwork...” (34:33)

7. Archaeological Priorities and Blind Spots

• The French privileged classical (“Greco-Roman”) and Ancient Near Eastern (e.g., Sumerian, Phoenician, Ugaritic) archaeology, often at the expense of more recent Ottoman or Arab vernacular heritage. (36:46)
• Classical archaeology enabled arguments about France as heir to Western civilization, but also brought scrutiny and diplomatic headaches.
• In the realm of biblical archaeology, the French navigated tensions between scientific credibility and the headline-driven, sensationalist approach of their British and American rivals—while not immune themselves to biblical “zeal.”
• Quote:

  “[French archaeologists] insist that they're approaching it with a scientific approach. And that also gives them a certain kind of sense of superiority...” (40:46)

8. From Excavation to Exhibition: Paris, the Louvre, and the Limits of Imperial Acquisition

• Many artifacts discovered during the Mandate period went to the Louvre’s Near Eastern Antiquities gallery; these were generally smaller, less spectacular objects than those retained in Beirut and Damascus due to local legal frameworks (Antiquities Law, 1926). (43:40)
• French curators had to innovate with modest collections; hopes for grand exhibitions often proved impractical.
• After World War II, the Louvre was rebranded as a “museum of Western civilization,” with the Near Eastern galleries framed as the entry point to the Western cultural journey—a narrative rooted in Mandate-era ambitions. (47:07)
• Quote:

  “The director... presents the Near Eastern galleries... as the entry point for a journey into Western civilization that one can now make by traveling through the Louvre.” (48:38)

9. Surprises and Unexpected Findings

• Dr. Griswold was struck by the degree of local Syrian and Lebanese agency, especially among elite curators and archaeologists, who found ways to contest and shape French priorities.
• While the French held significant power, the reality was dynamic; local actors wielded influence that is often downplayed in colonial histories. (50:50)

10. Looking Ahead: Next Research Project

• Dr. Griswold is exploring the afterlife of fascist objects in Europe post-World War II, tracing the fate and meanings of everyday Nazi and Vichy-era relics, and how these objects haunt the present, including contemporary trade in such memorabilia. (52:38)

Notable Quotes

• “I gradually came to see heritage... not just as a facet of Mandate policies, but really the heart of the Mandate's logic.” —Sarah Griswold (07:44)
• “The Crusades... can represent French culture, not just French cults...” —Sarah Griswold (20:38)
• “These are not showstopper pieces... Most of the good stuff is back in Beirut and Damascus.” —Sarah Griswold on Louvre acquisitions (45:35)
• “I really found that the Syrian and the Lebanese curators and archaeologists... found ways to push back.” —Sarah Griswold (51:00)
• “There's real argument... that the desire for this quote, unquote, French Holy Land comes out of real theological motives.” —Sarah Griswold (12:50)
• “I think ultimately my goal was to reposition the Mandate as a center of 20th century French cultural politics.” —Sarah Griswold (07:17)

Key Timestamps

• [02:35] Sarah Griswold’s background and motivation
• [09:59] Political and religious concepts behind the French Mandate
• [16:27] Adjusting heritage goals after losing Palestine
• [23:17] Political utility of Crusader castles
• [27:24] Damascus and Islamic heritage policies
• [32:05] Power dynamics and collaboration in heritage work
• [36:46] Archaeological interests and overlooked histories
• [43:40] Louvre’s role in the Mandate’s legacy
• [47:07] Why the book concludes with the Louvre
• [50:50] Surprises about local agency
• [52:38] Dr. Griswold’s next project

Tone and Style

The conversation is thoughtful, nuanced, and reflective, with Dr. Melcher and Dr. Griswold both engaging deeply on the historical, political, and ethical complexities of heritage, colonialism, and cultural memory. Dr. Griswold’s responses blend scholarly rigor with an accessible, occasionally wry tone—especially when discussing the ironies and practical compromises that marked the French mandate era.

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced look at how heritage served both as a symbol and as a tool for colonial governance—and how the effort to “resurrect the past” became entangled with questions of identity, legitimacy, and power. The French Mandate in Syria and Lebanon was not a simple story of cultural imposition but one of negotiation, adaptation, and contestation—an insight that reshapes our understanding of France’s 20th century history and its legacy in the Middle East.

For more, read Dr. Griswold’s book: Resurrecting the Past: France's Forgotten Heritage Mandate (Cornell University Press, 2025).