Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Sasha Davis on "Replace the State: How to Change the World When Elections and Protests Fail"
Host: Kendall Dineen
Guest: Dr. Sasha Davis
Date: October 1, 2025
Book: Replace the State: How to Change the World When Elections and Protests Fail (University of Minnesota Press, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Kendall Dineen and Dr. Sasha Davis, professor of Environmental Studies, Geography, and Sustainability at Keene State College, about Davis's new book Replace the State. The book outlines ways to achieve transformative social change when both elections and protest tactics reach their limits, focusing on replacing rather than reforming existing decision-making structures. Davis draws from research on anti-colonial and environmental struggles in US-impacted territories, sharing insights on how communities can build truly inclusive, just, and sustainable alternatives to state governance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Central Problem (01:37–03:10)

• Book’s Motivation: Institutions are set up to return to the status quo rather than address root causes of crises.

“The central problem today is not that it is impossible to solve our most serious crises. It is that we keep expecting existing institutions to solve them. Institutions that are neither inclined nor equipped to do so.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [02:18]

• Resilience vs. Transformation: Davis argues we need transformative solutions, not just resilience that brings us back to problematic norms.

2. How Sasha Davis Came to This Work (03:15–04:45)

• Fieldwork Experience: Extensive research in places like Okinawa, Guahan, and Vieques exposed Davis to communities forced to act outside formal political structures due to marginalization by colonial authorities.

• Emergence of Alternative Activisms: Similarities in approaches across diverse anti-colonial contexts led Davis to conceptualize activism as a form of replacing state functions.

3. Defining Key Terms (04:45–09:53)

- “Replace the State”:

“...Organizations and individuals who are like, well, you know what? We actually kind of have to create our own decision making processes and put them into place and give them power or sovereignty in these locations.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [04:58]

- State vs. Government:

The state is the durable structure (bureaucracy, courts, military, IRS, etc.) that persists beyond changes in government staff.

- Inclusivity:

More than formal rights—true inclusivity means all affected have a voice, addressing not just political, but also social and economic participation.

- Power and Space:

Social movements act as “proto-states”, wielding power and creating new governance arrangements. Location and scale crucially shape how these alternatives take root.

4. Why States Fail to Deliver Justice (09:53–11:53)

• Seven Reasons States Fall Short:
  Davis summarizes that state structures are inherently unequal; they protect elite interests, maintain hierarchies, and exclude large populations (economically, politically, socially).

"...There are lots of inequalities that are baked into the United States state structure that make it very, very difficult to use it as a vehicle to achieve genuine inclusivity and justice and equality. Because that's not what the state was made for..." — Dr. Sasha Davis [10:16]

5. The Limits and Benefits of Protest (11:53–15:25)

• Benefits: Protest builds community, skills, and hope.
• Limitations: If protest is simply a demand to those in power to change, and the state does not respond, then protest alone cannot deliver substantive transformation.

“...After these protests, if the government doesn't do what you say... what is your recourse?... It's also not enough if you actually want to change what's going on in our communities, because the government is not saying, oh, well, you know, they asked us twice. I guess we'll just do this thing.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [14:08]

6. Beyond Protest: Occupation and Alternative Authority (15:25–17:53)

• Occupation as Tactic:
  Davis distinguishes between occupation as temporary protest and occupation as a creation of new, alternative forms of governance.

• Case Studies:
  Movements in Okinawa, South Korea, and Hawaii have held and governed spaces, directly challenging the legitimacy of the state’s authority.

“...We have no intention of leaving. We intend to hold this space. We intend to govern this space differently according to different sets of ethics and rules. And that's where also this kind of creating authority comes from.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [16:26]

• Prefigurative Politics:
  These occupations model the alternative governance they hope to expand across broader territories.

7. Relational Governance vs. Imperial Governance (17:57–19:36)

• Relational Governance:
  Adapting governance to the specific needs and ecologies of a place through ongoing relationships and feedback; an ethical, collective, non-impositional approach.

• Imperial/Colonial Governance:
  Top-down, project-based, often disregarding local realities.

“Relational governance is where organizations are trying to manage a space and govern it in a way that takes into account... natural environment, ecologies, as well as the human activities and needs... and then you shift and change and modulate...” — Dr. Sasha Davis [17:57]

8. How to Replace the State in Practice (19:36–22:42)

• Practical Blueprint:
  Davis introduces the “connect, claim, create” strategy:

  • Connect: Build networks and communities.
  • Claim: Assert rights to more ethical governance in local contexts.
  • Create: Build parallel or alternative institutions for collective decision-making.

• Timing & Preparation:
  Successful movements are built during ‘slow times’ so they are prepared when crises emerge.

“...You don't really want to wait for the huge crisis moment in your community to start the organizing process. That one of the things that has actually allowed many of the groups I look at to be successful is that there's always a core of people who have been working on this during... 'slow times'...” — Dr. Sasha Davis [21:15]

• Davis’s Personal Efforts:
  He shares ongoing organizing work in his own New Hampshire community following the book’s strategies.

9. What Davis Hopes Readers Will Do (22:42–24:19)

• Local Empowerment:
  Encourages readers to recognize the wide variety of tactics available locally and reject the myth that all meaningful power resides at the national level.

• Building New Organizations:
  Readers are encouraged to methodically create groups and networks capable of making real improvements and resisting future crises.

“...There's a way to methodically build organizations that can then... support this larger vision moving forward.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [24:08]

10. On Hope, Current Events, and Forthcoming Work (24:19–26:46)

• Hope in Practice:
  Host comments on the sustaining hope found in the book, especially relevant in light of current global movements like Nepal.

• Future Work:
  Davis is currently shifting focus to organizing but is also working on a new manuscript about reimagining human security without recurring to violence.

• Desire for a New Movement:
  He emphasizes the need for a social movement outside standard state and party structures—something slow to coalesce but urgently needed.

“What the moment needs now is a large social movement outside of the state and outside of the current political parties. And it seems to be something that has not coalesced as quickly as I was hoping it would.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [26:32]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Resilience denotes the ability... to return to functioning as they did before it occurred. The problem…is that it is precisely the supposedly normal way of functioning that has created so many of our vulnerabilities to crises…” — Dr. Sasha Davis [02:18]

• “What we need today is not resilience, but transformation of our communities and institutions to be more genuinely sustainable, inclusive, and just.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [02:55]

• “The state is like a ship and the government is like its crew. Governments kind of come and go, but the state sort of endures..." — Dr. Sasha Davis [06:46]

• “Because that's not what the state was made for, right? It was designed to sort of support the people that created it…” — Dr. Sasha Davis [10:44]

• "If the government doesn't do what you say... your pressure tactics haven't necessarily worked, what is your recourse?" — Dr. Sasha Davis [14:08]

• “I don't say don't do elections. I just say, don't just do electoral politics.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [15:29]

• “...We intend to govern this space differently according to different sets of ethics and rules.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [16:30]

• “You don't really want to wait for the huge crisis moment in your community to start the organizing process...” — Dr. Sasha Davis [21:15]

• “There's a way to methodically build organizations that can then... support this larger vision moving forward.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [24:08]

• “What the moment needs now is a large social movement outside of the state and outside of the current political parties.” — Dr. Sasha Davis [26:32]

Flow and Structure

The episode guides listeners from a critical analysis of why state apparatus cannot be relied upon for justice, through the limitations of protest and elections, to actionable strategies for creating change "from below." Davis’s exposition is both scholarly and accessible, enriched by personal stories, concrete examples from around the world, and up-to-the-minute reflections on organizing and activism.

Useful for Listeners Who...

• ...are skeptical of electoral and protest-based change.
• ...want practical frameworks for social transformation.
• ...are engaged in or considering community organizing.
• ...seek hope and action in times of political frustration.
• ...are interested in anti-colonial, environmental, or relational models of governance.