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- [00:01]
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John Legend, Sheryl Crow, Elvis Costello and Alanis Morissette star in the MGM original series. Words and Music. Iconic artists share intimate performances and the stories behind the songs. Series premiere on November 30th only on MGM.
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This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move Another smart move.
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Having State Farm help you create a.
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Competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Kay Jeweler's Black Friday Sale is on. Now's the time to get up to 50% off Black Friday deals. With savings this big, you can get gifts for everyone on your list. Plus, if Black Friday lines aren't your thing, skip em at Kaye. You can buy online and pick up in store or get free shipping right to your home. This holiday season, unwrap love and savings with Kay. Exclusions apply. See kay.com exclusions for details. Soon after the saint opened at 105 Second Avenue in 1981, it mailed its members a set of bylaws describing itself as a private club for men. The document stated that, quote, male members wishing to bring women guests must receive permission from the membership office. The club had received complaints, a members newsletter later noted, about women being present on the premises. It was ironic then that the members of the Saint would listen to the music played by one of the hottest DJs of the time, black queer woman BJ Sharon White. Asked about this dissonance later by discodisco.com, white, who was the first woman to ever play the Saint, spoke less of these differences and more of how she was able to unite the crowd. I remember playing an acetate that I had just gotten from the mastering studio of Patti LaBelle's Somewhere over the Rainbow, she recalled. It was unheard of to stop the floor for a ballad at 6, 6 in the morning. We usually played till 11am or 12 noon at any rate. I took a big chance playing it then, but the entire room stopped and people held each other. People were in tears. It absolutely soared on that sound system. When it ended, the applause wouldn't stop. Mark Ackerman, my best friend as well as lighting and technical director and I were just crying. It was such an overwhelmingly emotional moment that everyone shared. It was the one moment I craved my entire career. To have so many People on the same emotional plane. It was magic. I'm Christy Soares.
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And I'm Ryan Purcell.
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And this is Soundscapes. Soundscapes is a bi monthly podcast about the sounds of the city that have shaped New York's history. In this final episode of the second season, we talk with DJ Sharon White. Born in West Babylon, New York, Sharon White studied music at the New York School of Music before becoming a radio disc jockey. In 1975, she became a club DJ, finding near instant success as she became the first woman to become resident DJ as a saint and the only woman to ever play Paradise Garage with a sound that she describes as edgy, deep, aggressive tech, synthy, percussive and lush. White also DJ'd at other legendary venues like Studio 54, Limelight and the Warehouse. She has been credited by Several other women DJs, like Liz Kritzer and Wendy Hunt for helping them break onto the scene. White is still DJing today, and you can find her mixes on SoundCloud and MixCloud.
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C
Cause all this time, while I will be patient, I'll be singing a lot.
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B
Hey, Ryan, how are you doing today?
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A
Hi, Kristi. I can't believe that this is the last episode. It's been such a long and fun journey, so thank you very much.
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B
Yeah, it's been so amazing. Ten episodes. And we've talked with academics, we've talked with musicians, we've talked with DJs, and I gotta say, we've had a lot of different perspectives about the 1970s disco scene in New York.
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A
If there's one through line through this entire season, I think it might be that there are multiple discos. It's a really complex story.
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B
So today we're going to be talking with Sharon White, and I'm really excited to talk to Sharon because this is really the culmination of all of the connections we've made this season. Of course, we spoke to DJ and academic Lulu lavey in episode two. And actually Lulu is producing a documentary called Queen of the Night, the Untold Story of DJ Sharon White, which she talked about a bit in that episode. So when Lulu and director Sonya Phillips were in New York filming for that documentary, you, Ryan, actually went down there and helped out a bit, didn't you?
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A
That was my first time working on a documentary set like that, and I have to say, it was a lot of fun. So my role in the set was kind of like a producer. So. So one of the tasks that Sonia delegated to me was to, for example, go pick up Sharon White from the train Stations. She had been traveling from Baltimore to New York, where she was going to stay for a couple nights while she was filming this documentary. So I picked her up, and what ensued was an unexpected yet fun set of Calamities. For example, there was a tremendous rainstorm which flooded the streets and made it hard for us to navigate. But once we settled into the set, it was a lot of fun getting to know Sharon and to hear some of the stories that she has carried with her all these years. Ye.
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B
Yeah. And as part of that filming, Ryan, I understand that you went physically with Sharon and Sonia and Lulu to some of the places where she DJ'd.
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A
We drove around New York City. We visited Studio 54, where she DJ'd. We visited the Paradise Garage, or at least the location of the Paradise Garage, and of course, the Saint on Second Avenue in the East Village. It was really illuminating to hear a lot of her experiences because in many ways, she was one of the first women in to play in these spaces like the Saint.
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B
One of the things that stood out to me about Sharon when we were interviewing her for this podcast is how gentle and humble she is. I remember her saying, I'm not one to kick down doors. I'm one to open them quietly and enter the room and absorb everything going on around me and learning from that, then make it my own. Does that resonate with you, Ryan, in terms of how gentle and humble she is? Even being so successful, Sharon White was so gentle.
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A
And I saw this firsthand when we hired one of my students as a director of photography to work on the set. Sharon immediately took to the student as a kind of mentor. A relationship to developed over the course of the set, which I saw unfold.
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B
Well, that's amazing. So I can't wait to hear about Sharon's experiences. Should we get into it?
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A
Let's go. Christy.
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C
Singing along to the radio station Hoping one day you'll come around and you'll see yeah, you coming back to me.
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B
Welcome, everyone. Welcome. And Sharon White, thank you so much for being here with us today.
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C
Today. Thank you for having me.
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A
Sharon, it's good to hear your voice again. I remember we had a. We. I worked with you before on the. That documentary shoot. That was a lot of fun. How are you doing?
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C
How many tickets? Wait, how many tickets did you get that day?
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A
Tickets?
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C
No, really. He got so many tickets. He owes New York City big time. I felt. I said. I said, he leaving his car. Where did he go? You know, like, I'm so worried about the car being towed away, which would have Been really like a terrible way to end a beautiful day.
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A
But.
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C
But, yeah, he was so on point. And the weather was not with us in the beginning.
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A
It was storming rain. I got caught in the front.
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C
Yeah, it was torrential rain. It was like, oh, gee, really? It's like the monsoons of Vietnam. It was crazy. But you were there. He was amazing.
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A
Oh, thank you.
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B
So you all spent a beautiful day together filming for a documentary that our former guest Lulu lavey and director Sonia Phillips are creating about Sharon, which is so special. And here today, you know, we really want to talk about your early introduction to and impact on DJ culture in New York. Sharon, I heard that you're the first person who ever played Donna Summers last dance. Is that correct?
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C
Yes, it's true.
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B
Tell us your story. Where'd you play it?
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C
Well, well, actually, I played it in a club called Sahara, which it was in New York, and I was playing in a lot of clubs. At one point, I was playing five different clubs in the city and. Which was. I can't believe the way we had so much energy back then. It was. It was almost insane. But I didn't take off for 10 years because, you know, we didn't have management contracts, anything protecting your employment. And everybody was gunning for me. It's like, if we can get the girl out, how many ways we can get in. So. So people were really trying to, like, get me out of the mix. And I wasn't even aware of that because it was. That was like a political end of it that I used. I kept myself away from all that. I just wanted to play music.
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A
That wasn't happening at Sahara, though, right?
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C
Sahara was small, but. But it was one club of its kind in the world. And so that, because I was a Billboard dj, they gave focus where they had no, no, no inroads into that. That, you know, group of people. And so it was a beginning for me. And then my roommate was vice president, was Casablanca, so of acetates that were first. And my other roommate worked with Prelude Records. And so. And I was working for Motown at the time. And so I got to do a lot of. This is another thing. I got to do a lot of mixes that I was NDA'd out of. And oddly enough, yeah, this. And because, you know, the women just. We didn't get. We didn't get a lot of opportunity to do. To do mixes outright. And so. And it's funny, because every NDA that I signed, every single one of those companies is under the polygram umbrella now, which So I guess they're null and void, but, you know, it's like, you know, I. I can't even talk about some of the mixes that I did because I wasn't supposed to. And this is Sharon.
- [10:23]
B
Let me. Let me make sure I understand. So early in your career, you were actually going in, you were doing mixes, they were released, they made money. And you can't. You're not allowed to talk about it?
- [10:30]
C
Well, basically, no. Wow. And. And. And then. And, you know, it's like when somebody gives you $12,500, that's. That's going to be your fee. We can't talk about it. And it's like, wow. It was like, well, that was big money. And. And. But it was like we were. We were. We were cutting ourselves off because we wanted the opportunity to be able to go into the studio and do mixes. So. So we gave everything up to do it. And then, you know, really kind of like, short circuit our careers because NDAs really short circuit you. And. Yeah, it's really weird how, like, let, you know, somebody call Sharon and let her come in here and finish this mix because so. And so is messing it up. And so I got a lot. Yeah. And so I get flown here and flown there. It was like, what. What's going on? Well, you. And drugs were everywhere, you know, especially in the 80s. And so people just went in the studio and kind of got lost behind it and forgot about the goal. And I got called into, you know, you got to go to Philly and you got, you know, go to Sigma Sound. You got to do this, you know, and James Montana is waiting for you. And I'm like, what? You know, it was. It was like, you know, it was an ego boost. It was scary. And then. And it was like, you have to sign these papers before you leave. And, you know. You know, and. And it was like in my. It was like my roommate was like, you know, you can't let Motown know him. And, you know, and the mixes would come out, and I would be so proud of him, and I couldn't let anybody know. And. Yeah, so that was kind of. Kind of a shady thing. It doesn't happen that way now. But. But it did then. And so many women that I know in the industry went through the same thing, and they said, yeah, we were so. But now you have your own home studios, and you can do whatever you want, and nobody can say a thing about it. But it wasn't like that then. So, you know, it is what it is. You know, it still Kept me out there and the club work was, was there because after a while I. My career caught up with itself. I was very patient. And I'm not one to kick down doors one to like, open them quietly and enter the room and absorb everything going on around me and learning from that and then making it my own. And so that's the way I dealt with the industry. And a lot people didn't do it that way. So I wasn't a threat to anybody until I really was. And that was a whole other bag of worms. But, you know, you see, people don't realize that competition is. Can be dangerous. And collaboration is a wonderful thing. And it's so much easier for me to collaborate with somebody than to compete with them. Absolutely. So I have a old hippie, what can I say you. But I really, I mean, two people together that are creative can take something so far that you couldn't do it by yourself. And it's so exciting. So collaboration to me has always been the key. And I love to work with people, period, you know, and get the energy from them and give my energy back to them. And it's just, it's a great, It's a great creative force.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
Well, Sharon, I've. I've interviewed quite a few, you know, for my work. Quite a few. The women DJs from this time period. And that is universally, in my experience, how people talk about you. Other women DJs talk about you as someone who is generous with their energy. Specifically, I'm thinking Liz Kritzer has credited you with giving, you know, teaching her what she knows. DJ Nancy Patino, DJ Jenny Costa. There's so many people and they all say the same thing about you. So you are not just talented, but you're kind.
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C
Well, that's great. I mean, I'm humbled by that because that's what I try to strive for. When I was a little kid, my mom said something to me that I always hold true. Don't make enemies when you can make allies. It is as simple as that. And she said it'll always serve you to make allies first. And so I've always leaned towards that because you never know who can be signing a check or not signing a check, or you never know who's going to need help that will be reciprocated in a positive way down the line. And, you know, if I can help anybody, you know, it's, it's, it, you know, skin off my nose because it's like, you know, it's each one teach one. So Yeah, I wish more people thought that way because we wouldn't be in the situations that we get into now, you know, if even, I don't know, so many people, you know, end up being vice presidents of companies and, you know, and what. And then, you know, you're wielding a lot of finance towards artists, but some of them are looking to line their pockets first and the artist is always last on the line. It shouldn't be that way because that's a creative force making you the money. And so I think about the artist before I think about the money, which is probably why I'm broke. But it is what it is, you know, and back in the day when we all had like these fabulous offices and fabulous buildings and, you know, it was all about that, it doesn't exist anymore. People doing promotion out of their homes and studios are in their homes, everything is, you know, more home based. And so, you know, you can't leave the artist behind because that's a generating force for what you're doing. And, you know, it's just very different now. And I don't know. So go on, tell me more about who I am in the world of DJs because I'm still trying to find myself and I'm leaning towards going to Europe because there's so much going on, production with women there.
- [15:57]
B
Yes.
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C
As opposed to what's going on here that it's like, you know, in my last days behind the tables, I really want to go. I think I'm going to send myself to London for my birthday in September.
- [16:08]
B
That's a great idea.
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C
Yeah, generate, generate some, some energy on that, on that level. Because all my DJ heroes seem to be there. Not that my DJ heroes, you know, I don't have any here. I do, but, but yeah, they're, they're really doing some ass kicking stuff in Europe. They really are. And I'm so proud of so many of them. Somebody said, well, you know, it's because of you that they're doing it. And I said, well, what do you mean? They said, well, if you didn't do what you did when you did it, some of them would never have been producers or DJs. So it's about you. And I said, wow, you know, really, I don't ever really think about it that way, but I guess maybe in a way it's true. And I wish I never gave up my apartment in London like Sonia, if you're listening to this, I'm coming to stay with you.
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A
Well, Sharon, this whole program, this whole podcast is about the 70s. And I was hoping you can walk us back to the 70s. I have a couple questions. We have a couple questions kind of structured around some of the clubs that you worked at. Can. Can you take us back to the Sahara Club? I mean, I think this is a club that not, like, not a lot of people outside of the 1970s in New York and outside of dance music culture know about. So for the listeners that aren't a part of that culture or really aren't tapped in that culture, can you talk a little bit about what made the Sahara Club significant not only for yourself as a DJ, but for dance music in New York during the 70s?
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C
Okay. Well, it was. It was. It was a club that was in the Upper east side in the 60s. And, you know, and so it was in a posh neighborhood, and it was run by five women who were lesbian. And it was basically a club for women, for lesbians. It was a cabaret, it was a disco, and it was also a gallery. So that we had a lot of stuff going on. And it was one of a kind because it served a community in New York that wasn't being served on that level. And then I got a billboard reportership, and then that brought a lot of attention to the club worldwide because it really was one of a kind. And so, you know, it gave. It gave me a lot of play. And then I went to other clubs, but I always use that as my base club. And. And I guess I worked there for, like, four years until it was closed. And, you know, and at the time, we really were developing our craft, so to speak. There were so many things that we did. We, as a. As a group of DJs in the 70s that were first that we didn't. I mean, we were so excited. We. Because it was all about, oh, my God, you're not gonna believe what I did. You need to come over and see if I can do the mix again, you know, because I don't know if I can do it live. And we. There were things that we did that no one. No one even thinks about. Like, my best friend Roy, his mom was a seamstress, and so he said, well, I went. I went to Joanne's with my mom, and I got some felt, and, you know, I made a circle. I took the rubber off of the. Off of the turntable, and now you can vacuum it, and it doesn't make a wow. And people even know what a wow is. Well, if you back to a record and you don't have slip mats, it's going to go and then catch up to speed. No one ever thought about that, but we did. And did anybody ever think of marketing slip mats? No, of course not. We didn't think there was. There was no market for any of it. You know, the things. The attention that we got, the things that we did that were innovative, because necessity is the mother of invention. And technology started to catch up, and then we were still, like, learning to mix, beat, match. Nobody ever taught us. We taught ourselves. Panasonic got in touch with us and said, and Sony, we're going to do a DJ line. So, okay, and what does that mean? Because we weren't thinking of ourselves as, like, these pioneers. And they said, well, we're going to send you turntables, and we want you to tell us what you think of them, what's good and what's not good, so that we can perfect our line at the end of a long road of. Because we had two of everything. It was crazy. You could open up a store, you want these back? They said, no, no, you can keep them. So it was like every turntable that. That they made up to the 1200s, we got and told them, you know, look at the beta babies. And, you know, we didn't think about, oh, gee, you want to pay us for this? We was just so honored that they trusted us with it. And so, you know, the things that we. Because we were being innovative, that were developed and now are just not even thought about in the 70s or this mainstay now, you know, and it's kind of amazing when you look back at it.
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B
And this is you and. And Roy.
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C
That and Roy. Yeah, and Roy. Tho T H O D E so.
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B
It'S the Roy, though, then. Okay.
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C
Yeah, yeah. She was my best friend when we were kids. And so we were so excited to be, you know, that. Wow. You know, you believe they're sending us all these turntables. You know, it's like, yeah. And then some of them were just amazing. And then some of them were just not usable in the club. But, yes, we had a lot of them. Two of each. It was amazing. So when we gave them. Gave them to people in the record pool. What are we going to do with all of them, really? Honestly? And Sergio Munzelbai was one of. I don't know if you know of him. Through John Morales, Eminem Productions. He was. He was amazing because there were turntables that we were like, these are impossible to work with. And he used them exclusively. And they were. They were digital, and they were. They were. But they were so, like, you had to have, like, four. Four fingers extra to use because it was the way they were set up. It wasn't like a slide bar. It was like pressing on something to get. Get. Get the BPM to go up and down. So they were awkward for. I mean, because in a club, you know, when you turn beat matching is a. It's you. You. You have so many things to think about. That's one thing you don't want to have to think about. But he did it. It was amazing. I used to say to Morales, Munza, buy is crazy you to be using those. He goes, he uses them exclusively. And I said, well, you know, takes all kinds. And Wendy Hunt used to use them too. And I was like. I said, wendy, how many things are you gonna do at once? She's got two. Two. Two turntables open wide. And then light a cigarette for me. I said, what are you gonna do it?
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B
You're gonna.
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C
You're gonna help me smoke it? And I was like, you know, like, she's using, you know, two fingers on each. Each turntable. And. And they're not like slides, so. And. And just, you know, keeping them in sync. I was like. I said, that's just too much work, you know, but everybody. Everybody had their own little, like, you know, thing. Like Larry Levan used. Used Thor ends, which were impossible because if you held on to the, you know, you wanted to, like, you know, it ended cold. Those sorens that were belt drives, and that belt would come off on you and was like, well, where you go now? It never happened to Larry. I hated them. You know, we all had. You know, we all had our own little thing, and. And. And, you know, we helped each other out with it, because sometimes it was like, you can figure something out, but somebody else had the solution to the problem and said, oh, no, do this. It was really important because we were all developing the craft, and little by little, each person had something to drop into it, and it was really a wonderful thing to look back at. So anyway, so Sahara was my mainstay for four years. My record collection was there, you know, and I would go to other clubs to work, but I always went back to Sahara. And then they closed the club and all of my records.
- [23:32]
B
Oh, no.
- [23:33]
C
He was locked up. And that. I didn't know what to do. I was devastated. And one of the lawyers. I was working for RSO at the time, and one of the lawyers just said, what's going on with you? She said, you're not your usual self. And I said, well, I've got a problem. I don't even know how to solve it. She said, come into my office and talk to me about it. So I told her, she said, do you have anything in there that's promotional from rso? I said, yes. And she goes, warner Brothers? I said yes, because she gave me a list. I just said yes, yes, and yes. She goes, okay, I'm make up a form, and by rights we get to take all that back because we gave it to you promotionally. So the sheriffs have to let you in, and they're not going to go through everything. Take everything out that you can. And so Roy and I got his station wagon and we were locked out of the club. We took everything. We took turntables, we took the records. They just said, okay, fine, take it all. And that's how I got my record collection back. It had not been her lawyer who was really smart. It was just one little loophole. And they said, we don't even bother with that. Go ahead, take it all. And I was. But I was devastated. I didn't even know what to do. I just, like, my whole world crashed. And she. She gave me the solution. It was like, wow, how lucky was I? You know? And. And then music changed, like, overnight. It was like just real rock influence came in, like Talking Heads and all that kind of. And. And. And then all of a sudden, the BTM went down. It was like, on one end, it was going up, like, you know, and. And then on the other end, it was like Diana Ross and what. They were all like, dropping to 102 and 103. So it was like these two worlds were colliding. And when I got back into music, that was where I was. I was like, oh, wow, this is twisted now. My, My. My background, I hate genres, but for the most part is rock. So I've always been really, really, you know, that's always been a part of what I play and never leave it behind. And some of the best clubs, like Hurrah, which was one of the clubs I worked at in back then, was one of my favorite clubs because I got to stretch my rock roots out. And so it was such a comfort zone for me because the thing about the dance DJs and the rock DJs, and I was in both the rock pool and also for the record. So it was like, I didn't think that, you know, this is a world apart between us, but they kind of did. And so I. So I got to work in clubs that other people didn't because I had that edge.
- [26:07]
B
Let's take a step back and explore this soundscape that we've been illustrating. Here's hold on to My Love by Jimmy Ruffin, which Sharon White described as an anthem.
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C
At this you had just drifted away and I look in your eyes and I couldn't bear the pain I felt inside of my heart to think that I'm gonna be lonely again and if ever you go Then I know at.
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A
A glance that I don't stand a.
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C
Chance hold on to my love I'm nothing.
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B
Here's Sharon White playing a tribute to her mentor Roy thode, at the Saint in 1982. And finally, here's Sharon still spinning in 2019.
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C
Sam.
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B
Now, let's get back to our conversation.
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A
So throughout this season, we've been looking at specific spaces in which, you know, what we call now disco was kind of emerging and coalescing, as you just kind of, kind of described. I mean, you talked about Sahara in a very eloquent way as a kind of hub for this cultural innovation. But there are other clubs, too, right? So we were exploring some of the differences between some of the downtown clubs like the Flamingo and the Paradise Garage, and then other uptown places like SU54 or Le Jardine. And so I was wondering, which kind of clubs did you prefer as a dj? And also you mentioned Hurrah. You know, where did that fall on the spectrum of those kind of clubs.
- [28:49]
C
Which is probably one of my top three favorite clubs, just because it was. The space was. Was wonderful, the sound system was wonderful. They generated a crowd that was. Was uptown, but not like Studio 54. They. They were, they, you know, it was everything from, okay, I could be playing a night and the Ramones would come in and say, we're gonna, you know, we'll take an hour, you know, oh, yeah, you know, and that kind of stuff went on all the time. And they were set up to like, you know, let's throw it into drive and let'. And so people felt comfortable coming in there and just, like, throwing down a jam in the middle of, you know, whatever. And it was exciting for everybody because no one ever knew what's going to happen. And then on the other hand, it was right off of the Broadway spectrum so that they weren't considered a Broadway house. So they didn't have to be go dark on Mondays. And if anybody doesn't know, Broadway is dark on Mondays because those poor people, they're like, you know, they're killing themselves in the theaters. So unions that go dark on Mondays. So Hurrah was exciting on a Monday night because all those people just came here to stretch out and. And just be comfortable because they knew they were going to be around industry people, bar people, artists, whatever, anything goes. And so Hurrah was always one of my favorite places to play. And I ended up there in an odd way, because I went. I went to go and pick up a friend of mine who was DJing there, and he was a mess, and he was going through some stuff, and I cleared out the booth and said, look, you're not going to help me get out. And took over because he was inebriate. He couldn't do it. And I didn't like, you know, it's like, oh, well, the ship is sinking. I need to do something. They did, because my friend was in jeopardy, got him together, and there was one person in the booth, and I was like, can you get me a pot of coffee, please? I thought it was, you know, my friend's boyfriend. It turned out he was the owner of the club. And so at the end of the night, you know, everything was together and. And so all the bouncers were like New York Giants that were off. You know, they weren't in season. And he said, the owner one needs to speak to you. And I said, oh, about what? He said, well, you know, you'll find out. We watch your car. Don't worry about it. And so, you know, I went back upstairs and they said, come into the office. And then I said, oh. And I was like, you know, I. I said, I had no idea you were the owner. I'm so sorry if I was barking orders in the booth. I said, but things needed to be taken care of. He said, you did it marvelously. You want a job? And I said. I was like, well. He goes, no, your set was amazing. He goes, do you want a job? And I said, not at the cost of my friend's job. I said, because that's not why I did it. And I said, you know, I explained what he was going through, and I said, I'll take the job if you promise me you won't fire him. And I'll give you my words, I'll never let him be in that condition ever again. He goes, because how honorable of you. And I said, well, that's what we do. You were family. And so he was. It was. That's about how I started Hurrah. And it was just, God, I wish I could play there now. What a great sound system. What a great group of people, you know, and it was always exciting. There was always something going on there. I met all the studio 54 people that were there, you know, because it was a Monday night. I worked on Mondays, and so I got all the excitement without the drama. And so you always win one of, like, my top five clubs, you know, that I just. My heart beat for it. And. And I got to see some of those people, you know, Like, a friend of mine had a book thing and. And. And it was. It was like, oh, my God, you guys are all my heroes, you know, And. And. And Jim was there, and I heard his voice, but I said, well, I know that voice. And was like. I walked into one of the rooms and I listened to the end of his lecture. And then he. I look and he said, said, Sharon. I said, wow. I said, I heard your voice a mile away. And so there were still people in the room. And he said, I want everybody to stand up and give this woman, like, applause, because if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't be where we are. And that just still blows me away.
- [32:56]
A
That's beautiful.
- [32:57]
C
He said, she's one of the most honorable people in the business. And we gave each other a big hug. And I said, you haven't changed a bit. He goes, yeah, I'm still going to clubs on Thursday nights and trying to find man, you know, and it's like, some of those things don't. They. People don't change. He said, yeah, I went to politics. I fell out of politics. He goes, but rock and roll is still in my heart, you know, it was just amazing. And I turned around, looked at all these people, and I was like, wow, you guys are all my heroes. And here they were giving applause because when people say, you're a legend. Yeah, don't call me a legend. Legend are dead people, you know. And when he said. Rang true in so many different ways. And. But there were all these people out in the audience that really. I looked up to so many of them. Them for years, people that open CBG and just great places that, you know, where you could go and find real, real music in New York. And, you know, it wasn't like on dance club circuit was. But it was a club circuit, you know, and. And there they all were. And it was like. And I was in the book, and I was like, wow, this is so cool, you know, because it does come around eventually. And it's. It's exciting to be acknowledged. It's kind of like it puts you in a state of, like, awe, and you get stuck in when you're like, like, why? And then you have to look back and say, I guess I was important and I did touch a lot of people. And you have to give yourself. Atta boy. Because you need to acknowledge what you do. And I'm in a stage now where I'm like, oh, okay. I guess I did do that, huh?
- [34:31]
B
Well, let us acknowledge you. I mean, you should acknowledge yourself and we'll acknowledge you. So we have just a few of your many accomplishments here. First woman to play at the same time. Only woman to play at Paradise Garage, sadly. I wonder if we could take you back there for Paradise Garage.
- [34:49]
C
Well, you know, that had to do with a whole bunch of things. Like Larry and I were friends first. Secondly, I was in. I had a penthouse on Jane street, which I was the closest in proximity to the garage. And so I would get the call. It's like, sharon, do you think you can come tune up the room? Because we don't know where Larry is. And it was like, you know, so it was. It was like one of those accidents. And, you know, I knew Mel Sharon really well and, you know, and Michael Brody. And so they were. They were like friends of mine. And. But I was. I was, you know, I was on the dance floor when I was there, and anonymous, you know, which was great because it was at the Saint, I had no anonymity. But at the Paradise Garage, I was just, you know, just one of the people on the dance floor. And I loved that because I could just be free, you know, and I wasn't in check like I was when I worked at the Saint. People always looking and watching what I was doing. And, you know, you know, what was she playing? And, you know, it was a whole different focus on me. And those two clubs were like the antithesis of each other. The sound systems were just the opposite spectrum of each other, but yet still, they were both top of the line. And so anytime that Larry disappeared and I was tuning the room, it was an honor to be there, but it was an Anonymous honor. And that was cool because I wasn't there doing it so that somebody would hire me, because that wasn't even possible. But, yeah, Larry used to jump out and do his thing every now and then, and I would get the call and I was always, you know, ready to go and, you know, in the room and. And there were other DJs, I'm sure that did the same thing. But you never really knew who was doing that because if David Mancuso called Larry, he was gone. That he went to him Right away, because that was his mentor. And so, you know, there were times that David called because, you know, he was going through something, and Larry just left the room. You know, it's just like somebody take over, you know. And sadly, you know, many of us think that that's why. When the garage closed, Larry had nowhere to go. His heart was in that room completely and totally. It was his and his alone. And the things that he did there, no one else could do anywhere else and get away with. And had he lived the production, I don't even know where production would be because he was so far ahead of his time. The way he looked at a piece of music and took it apart and put it back together, it was amazing. And I just think when they closed the doors, his heart just broke. He couldn't find a place to be himself anymore, and he just gave up. And that's just so sad because there was so much stuff. They were closing so many clubs in New York at the same time. Thank you, Mr. Giuliani. And yeah, really, it was a shakeup that was ridiculous. And it just, just completely closed down a stream of clubs that people, you know, went to. It was like, you know, why are you taking away our pleasure Pleasure Domes, you know, and it was just, it was political. And one by one, they closed. And people, you know, there were no more, like, you know, well, I don't have a home base anymore. And people were going to, like, spots where somebody would start a night and that had a name to it, it. And because there was no club, there was no club there, you know, anymore. And definitely when Ryan where the Paradise Garage was, I, I, I broke into tears because it was like, the building's not even there anymore. It's like, wow, you know, to us, it's like a monument. And it's not. The number of the street isn't even there anymore. And it's like, you know, each generation has its own focus. And to them, it's like, you know, know, apartment buildings and whatnot. And it's like, wow, you should only know what was here, the energy that was here. They'll never know the address.
- [38:38]
A
Even I don't, I think, is not even there for King Street.
- [38:41]
C
Yeah, 84 King street is no longer there. It is like, it goes from like, 82 to 87, and 84 is nowhere to be found. And it was like, how did they do that?
- [38:51]
A
Like, literally erased from the city. I have Paradise Garage closing. It opens in 78 and, and closes in 87. And then Saint also opens in 80 and closes 88. So, yeah, they're closing around the same time. Are there other. Other bars and other clubs that are Also closing around 78, rather? 87 and 88 too?
- [39:10]
C
Yeah. Limelight, Limelight, the Tunnel, you know, and that was a whole group of people that. The person who owned the Limelight, the Tunnel, usa, String Fellows, all of those clubs were owned by one person. And he was a hockey player from Canada. And. But he was running game like nobody's business. And I had. I said, I'm playing all these clubs he owns. And nobody ever told me about all this ecstasy he was bringing. No, no, seriously. And I was like, you know, help a girl out. Every single one of those clubs, the Tunnel, all of them he owned, and they all got shut down at once. Thank you, Mayor Giuliani, once again. But that, that there was a reason for all that, you know, but. But, you know, he just, Just swept everything out. And so the club circuit took such a hit at once. Certainly within one year, everything that anyone wanted to be a part of was gone. And so it was an amazing thing that happened in New York, you know, of all places. It was like, you know, didn't matter. Their name was on the liquor license got shut down. Everything got shut down. It was like, oh, wow, I'm out of work now, for real. You know, so, you know, got to put our attention in other places so that. That we could still survive. And so, you know, welcome to the Internet, you know, because, you know, because it was like the only place for us to go that wasn't being ruled by, you know, the evil ones that were running the government. And so. And to this day, you know, you can, well get away with murder on the Internet. There's just, no, no, no, no regulations that hold us back. You know, there's big companies now squeezing us then, but, you know, it was a place for us to flourish prior.
- [40:56]
B
To this, to what you mentioned, to Giuliani shutting down all the clubs and all that is sort of. I don't know how to describe it, but what many would describe as sort of like disco's most, maybe excessive version. The Studio 54 kind of cult of celebrity. And that seems so different to me than many of the places you DJ'd. But you did DJ at Studio 54.
- [41:20]
C
Yeah, and it was a great sound system. First of all, that was an attraction, you know, because, you know, the same person who, you know, did the garage, did Studio 54. And again, you know, Richard Long was just a genius. And it was like, yeah, I want to get My hands on that and all the other stuff that went on was negligible because it was, it was, sometimes it was laughable, sometimes it was exciting. But, you know, it's like if you hire a clown, you get a circus.
- [41:52]
A
Yeah.
- [41:52]
C
And there was so much, you know, visibility and, and people, you know, looking for that 15 minutes of fame that, you know, that was like that kind of energy generated what was going on in studio. But then There were great DJs that played there and it was a wonderful sound system. And so, you know, that was what, you know, so one, you know, one person would call another and say, we need somebody on Thursday night and do. We all took care of each other and, and nobody had agents. It was crazy. I don't know how he did that, that, you know, back in the day, you know, and, and like I said, I didn't take off work for 10, 10 years because it was like, you know, you knew that if you weren't there one night, that was, it was somebody there with their records waiting in the wings to take, take your place for nothing. And then, then you were like X'd out of the box because it's, oh, we got this guy and you know, and we don't have to pay him as much as we pay you. And so you didn't really want to hit that. So you didn't, you went to work no matter what. Working five clubs at once, that was like crazy. And the hours that we used to work were insane. You know, we didn't think anything of a 12 hour shift at the same minimum. 12 hours. I mean, the longest I've ever worked at the Same was from 10:00 o'clock at night until 7:00 clock the next night. Because I was like the marathon girl. As long as the crowd was there, I was gonna play because I would stretch out. And I was known for, I guess I was the alternative one and not alternative like as far as the genre. But I played what my heart felt and people were digging that. And so I played with the crowd. And after six o' clock in the morning, my forte was a down tempo trip and most people didn't go below, below 110. I was pitch abused. I would go all over the place, play records on the wrong speed, all kinds of. Because the format was so long you could do anything you wanted. And so I took advantage of that and people were like, man, you had some balls. And I was like, well, I guess I did. But I was like the most progressive out of all the same DJs. And to this day, I'm progressive than most of my peers just at hello. The music that. That I gravitate towards is not the music that other people would even think of playing for the most part and find. I find a way. If I feel it in my heart, I can play it. I. I don't. I'm just lucky that way. And. And also look at it from a different point of view, because I'm a musician, so I listen to music differently than other people do. And since I was a kid, I mean, my mom. My mom set me up big time time, you know, the first. I'm four years old, she gave me my first record, my first record player. And then she came back the week later and she's like, oh, my gosh, are you still listening to this? And I was like, remind me. It's the best thing I've ever heard. And it was Gershwin, Rapsy in Blue. And it was still such an important piece of music in my life, but it was the first thing I was ever given as a record. And she used to bring me records every week. I was like, mom, you really like. She goes, I knew where you were going. Even as a child, you always gravitated towards music all time. So she brought me music all the time, and she was a great influence in my life. She really was beautiful. She had me down. She really did. She was amazing. And she never pushed me in any direction one way or the other. She always let me just have free birth. And there were times that she just shocked me because she was always listening. She was always listening.
- [45:16]
B
Who were your other inspirations, Sharon? You mentioned your mother. Who were the other people throughout your life that kind of.
- [45:22]
C
Well, my mom's like, you want to play an instrument? I was like, yeah. She goes, well, you want to play some drums? She was like, well, okay. And so, you know, we went to Manhattan School of Music, and, you know, there was this professor of music. He was there, and, you know, and he said, I never taught a girl. And I was like, what difference does it make? You know, I was like, you know, all that? And he said, okay, well, you know, get a couple of sticks. I'm, you know, give you some rudimentary stuff to do, like, see if you can follow me. And I was blowing him away. And he was like, like, I'll take her as a student. And so, you know, that was. That was exciting because it was yet another first. But so I was playing percussion and, you know, in bands in school and all kinds of stuff like that, and saying, I can't be on a drum kit and a skirt. Okay, I need to wear jeans. And they were like, okay, you know, you don't think about that. Don't think about things like that. But, you know, it's like, you know, being under Trump kitten and skirt was not. Not the thing. And so, yeah, so we weren't allowed to wear pants in school. But then it was like, yet another first. It was like, okay, well, I guess we can wear jeans now, you know, and nobody thinks about that stuff. But it was a comfort zone for us. You know, I want to come to school and be comfortable, and I want to sit in a drum kit and be comfortable. And so I was playing percussion, like, all over the place. And then I started playing guitar. And. And one of my music teachers, he was really. He was a gentle soul. And I said, listen, I really, really, really hate, like, you know, like. Like dealing with, like, music one on one takes. It takes the heart out of it for me, and I hate it. And I think I said, you know, I'm writing stuff, and I'm gonna sit here, like, write it all out, you know, will you do that for me? And he said, sure. And so. So, you know, he would accompany me on piano and this and that. So then he said, I want you to meet my mentor. I said, okay, cool, cool, cool. You know, like, you know, I haven't thought about him having a mentor. And so we went over to Hofstra University, and I met, you know, this person Robert, and. And then we sat down, you know, watching the football team. It was like the jets were, like, practicing there. And so we get to, you know, Joe Namath and all these people, you know, it was like, wow, this is really kind of cool. So we talked about all kinds of things, all kinds of, you know, different types of music. And he said, wow, you know, I've been. I've been waiting to meet you, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, you know, you were everything he said you were. And I said, well, he never told me about you, so this is really exciting. And, you know, back then, we didn't have cell phones and whatnot. The interaction between people was like, face to face. And so after, you know, he's, well, you know, I need to go. I have an appointment with some students, and blah, blah. And I said, what's your last name? And he said, moog. And I. Then I blew. Blew my mind because, you know, mog synthesizer. This was the man, you know.
- [48:05]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [48:08]
C
I never start with my last name. He goes, and you shouldn't either. And I really learned that lesson. And. Because, you know, being. And excuse me for saying this, but being a celebrity in a social microcosm that is small, you just like, don't ever say, I'm Sharon. Why? Just say Sharon. Because, you know, they react differently when they hear my last name, and I don't want them to react differently. And so, yeah, he said, yeah, I never start with my last name. And I said, you. My God, you're my sister. Hero. I was like, went nuts. And. And so we. Yeah, yeah. You just don't. And you don't realize. You just don't realize sometimes who people really are. It was like. There was this friend of mine, Robert, you know, at the time, he said, love running around with you, because nobody knows who I am. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, because they're all focusing on you. I said, well, you know, it would not behoove me to introduce you with your last name, because then. Well, then it would change everything. It was Robert Mapplethorpe, you know, And I loved that he was hiding behind me. You know, it's funny because I. That whole celebrity thing is. You never faze me. You are who you are. To me, you're an artist. Whatever you do, you know, they'll hail to you, you know, but, yeah, I'd never start with the last name because it really changes the whole format of things. Yeah, so. So, yeah, Robert. I remember still, like, my heart's beating really fast thinking about meeting him, you know, and then. And then we got together a few times, and we see. It was just amazing because we always just talked about how we felt about music. And he could. So many people, like, you know, point fingers at me and say, you're doing. You're changing music and you're taking the heart of it out. He goes, I'm not, because I'm just giving another element to, you know, to flourish. And he goes. And I said, you know, so many people that, like, were my heroes, everybody said no to them, and they said yes, and I'll show you. Just roll with me.
- [49:55]
A
Sharon, you have so many achievements yourself. I mean, like, you're. You're the first so many different ways. I was wondering also if you can talk a little bit about some of your other achievements. Like, for example, there's a gold album certification for Sylvester step two in 1978. Can you tell us what kind of work you did on that album?
- [50:12]
C
Well, I listened to a lot of tracks because they were flooding. They were wanting to make it a Double album. And I said, yeah, I think that would hurt him because he's Sylvester and I, Sylvester and I got to be friends because I was outside as New York Hilton at four in the morning having a cigarette and he wanted to like, find out where to go to get chicken. And so I still, I said, let me get my car out of the lot and I'll go take you someplace you can get chicken. And then we go up to my suite and, you know, fell down. And so, so anyway, I was out in the West Coast a lot and so he said, you know, you want to consult on this? And I was like, sure. And so I, I said, well, you know, this is, this is a track right here, you know, and this one and this one. And so it kind of like did like a little bit A and R for him and, and you know, just a little bit. And so, you know, between, you know, his, his amazing voice and, and then the amazing productions, you know, hence the album came out and was, it was amazing and, and it was, was my first gold album and I had no idea I was going to get it. You know, I never have goals for myself because they, they lock me in a corner and if I don't achieve the goal and I beat myself up. So I don't have goals, but I've achieved a few of them. Things that, that, well, this would really make me happy if, like, if I could get a gold record, my industry that I love acknowledged me. That would be really cool.
- [51:37]
B
What are some of the other ones, Some of the other moments you remember being acknowledged and accepted?
- [51:41]
C
Well, my first gold record was Dance by Chic. So then Lisa Vandross and I became friends through that because he was in Chic. And you know, you never know who's like singing backup or who's doing what and just amazing people that in the beginning. And then when I worked for rso, I got one for Fame, for the, for the, you know, soundtrack fame. And so that was another group of people that were just wonderful young artists in New York that, that, you know, all came together because they all went to school together and, and just, you know, did brilliant things on film and on stage together. And then I got one know, Donna Summer, a few Donna Summer things, things. And, and then Eurythmics, her two Eurythmics album, which is like that. That's where my heart was at the time, you know, and just, you know, because I, I was into, you know, you know, Annie since the Tourists, which was way before the Eurythmics. And we talk about gardening now online, you know. You know, she's just amazing. She's so true to form and that, and she's just so humble, and she's. Well, you know, if you ever go to, you know, come to Edinburgh, you know, come see me. And I have family there. And so I. I did. And. And so she said, well, I'll take you to lunch. And so she came to, you know, so it was like me meeting, like, this whole clan of, like, you know, crazy Scots people that were my family. And. And so that was amazing, too, because, oh, when you go to Scholar, it's going to be really different. Different. I said, what does that mean? He said, well, no, I'm gonna accept you. I said, were they better? This is my family. And so Grandmama, she was like the head of the clan. And. And so it was like, you know, it's like, you know, sitting outside and having usually, like, amazing, like, feast of food for, like, because. Because, you know, she's come home, you know, and. And they said, well, if Grandma likes her boy, it's going to be something, all right. She's a whole different, like, the American, right? And so my teenage cousins, they were into me because they thought I was really cool. They were like, like 15 and 16. And then I said, well, you know, I have a friend who's coming to pick me up for lunch. And then Annie pulls up and they break the out. They were like, ah. I said, I'm so sorry. She goes, oh, it's okay. I'm prepared for it. So she's signing autographs for everybody and everything. And. And. And so. So Grandmama was like, she. She thought I was dope. So that was a great thing because everybody accepted me then. And she made me. She goes, the only person who gets this is the head of the clan. And she made me a leather kilt out of white. And she said, you know, only the head of the clan gets this. So. So when I'm gone, it's about you. And, yeah, you know, I had my. My family, plaids, all that stuff. It was. It was amazing. Family crest, the whole thing. And it was. It was. It was great. It was just wonderful because it was like. Like to have family, like, really like family and know me from anybody, and I know I'm accepted. It was just a great feeling because I'm so, like. Like, not divorced from my family in the States here. Yeah. It's just. It's weird. So I had to go all the way to Europe to find my family, and then my family in music Those people are really my family. So, you know, just. It's. It's weird being estranged from your own family.
- [55:07]
A
Family.
- [55:08]
C
I don't know. I'm rebel with a cause or without a cause. I'm not sure which. But, yeah, you know, it's always been that way. So I'm kind of used to it. So going. Looking after my lineage was something that I. I really craved to do. And so I have family in Germany. I'm different. The United nations was made for. Almost all my family would feel like they had a place in the world. Everybody in my family's from a mixed marriage. So you're all over the place. And it was. I've always. So I've always been accepted by all the Europeans. It was a really great thing. And I crave to go back there now. So I guess I am going back to my roots in a way. It's so bizarre, but true.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah.
- [55:49]
B
That question of family. Where did you find family? Chosen family. When you were DJing in New York in the 70s and early 80s, who would you.
- [56:00]
C
Between DJ artists, I found family. And because sometimes when you're trying to create something or remix something or just be there for an artist, these bonds develop that are really important because especially with artists, because they're so fragile and coddled by people, Some of them are out of control with ego, and then some of them are just innocent. And either way, you were the tether between them and people who could either make their careers or break their careers. And so you were an important person in their life, and they trusted you because they knew you were there for them. And so I had bonds with all kinds of people. And I was on the road with Bonnie Raitt for years, you know, back and forth, back and forth. And I miss those roots too, because it was amazing people that I met through Bonnie, and, you know, you just don't ever forget them, you know, you really don't. Like John Prine and Elton John. And Elton John sent you a Christmas card. And I was like, well, y. Yeah. Like, well, why? I said, because we're friendly. And you're like, whoa. Like, yeah, whoa. You know, an amazing, amazing artist. And. And that I could call friends. I could call and say, let's get to dinner, let's go to dinner, you know, and. And. And. Or John Prine called me up, said, you still got that 12th string? I said, yeah. He goes, but can you make Southern food? I said, well, I don't really know. I remember trying. He goes, well, you know, I'm coming up. We'll hang out and play guitar for a while. I said, well, I'll do the cooking. Good luck. And then having John Prine in my house and playing guitar with me weekends, those are things I'll never, ever forget, you know. And people like you write country western music. I said, well, yeah, and there's another Sharon White who also writes country, but she's got Grammys and stuff. But there were, like five Sharon Whites in the business at the same time. So I guess my name is like a John Doe, you know, name, but, you know, literally five of us, and then we're all in different branches of music. And then Sharon White was married to Ricky Skaggs, and they got best country artist for, you know, the year. And I was getting all her telegrams. And so I. So I said. I said, well, you know, some people realize that. I do. I love punching. You said all kinds of music. I said, but. But not to get a Grammy. I said, so I'm going to send you. Send you all these telegrams. And she said, God bless you, girl. God bless you. You know, and it was funny because we sort of started Sharon White Club, you know, as a joke, you know, so we could start our own, you know, complete label, you know, between all of us. And, yeah, anything before Facebook, you know, to try. But, yeah, it was funny. Yeah. So five Sharon Lights. I said, wow, maybe I should always use my middle initial, which I started doing, you know, on documents and whatnot, just because things get crossed up. But now it's all different, you know, it's all digital. But, yeah, it was pretty funny. I was like, wow, there's so many of us and every single one of us in a different area of the music industry. And so it was like, yeah, we could start sharing White Label, you know, or something. Yeah, it's pretty funny. But, yeah, just some. Some people, you know, I still. I'm still in touch with and. And things change. Times change. But, you know, digital era, you can get in touch with anybody at any time and still feel close to them, which is an amazing thing that. That Facebook created. That was never in our lives before somebody could be close. So close to you. And you never met them physically, but because you have a relationship digitally, they can become a best friend. And I said, so you. It's amazing what you can. The people that you meet from all around the world that you become friendly with, it is like a family, you know, it's extended families by Facebook. And then people find you. It's like, oh, my God, where's the band? Right here, you know, and. And yeah, it's. It's a curiosity to me. It's not the same as it was now. Now it's turned into, like, I don't even know what. But. But. But I still have, you know, people I consider family that I stay in touch with through Facebook.
- [59:58]
A
That story really speaks to the. To the generosity that I think many people know, you know, you to have. And. And you're certainly been generous with your time and your energy and on this conversation and, you know, this. This alternative family that you find among musical artists, especially with. Within DJ culture in New York City in the 70s, it also kind of speaks to the kind of power that music has, but bringing people together and solidifying their connections. And I'm wondering if you can elaborate on the power that you believe that music has in your life and other people's lives.
- [60:30]
C
Without it, I would probably be insane, literally, because there's so many ranges of emotion that music expresses for me. And when I lose my words, I can always find a song that carries on the sentence for me emotionally. And, you know, I always say, if you put 10 people in a room that don't speak the same language and put on a piece of music, they find a way to enjoy it together. And without you, I think we probably would have disappeared off the planet long ago, because it's the one thing that we all have in common. No matter what culture you come from, music is a root in your culture, and, I don't know, it puts us in a place of joy. It gives us a place to take our sadness and be with it and okay with it. And really without it, I don't think the planet would have existed. Because everyone, every single culture has that music is a base in their culture. Not the written word, but music, you know, songs. And it just. This is so important. And when I need solace, I always go to music. Music, you know, when I feel happy, when I feel sad, no matter what, it's always there for me.
- [61:38]
A
Yeah.
- [61:38]
C
So. Yeah. So it's ultra important in my life, and I don't know what I would do without it. Like I said, I probably would go insane. Easily, easily. You know, it keeps me company when I feel alone, you know, just. I can always drop a piece of music and just like, just close my eyes and just go away, you know, and transcend the moment that I'm stuck in. It's an amazing thing. It is like a pleasure craft. It's what it is for me. It's everything. It really is. Yeah.
- [62:12]
B
Well, Sharon, we have such gratitude for you, for the time and the generosity you've spent here with us today.
- [62:18]
C
And, well, thank you.
- [62:19]
B
Honored to have been able to end our season with you, you know.
- [62:24]
C
Oh, my gosh. Is this the end of the season?
- [62:26]
B
This is it. You're. You're. You're the finale.
- [62:31]
C
Yay. That's really special. Thank you. Thank you so much.
- [62:35]
B
Thank you. You're not just an innovator. You're someone who is blazing a path and helping out the people that come behind them. And that is really, really special. And so thank you so much for bringing us into your world.
- [62:48]
A
Sharon, I just wanted to add to that by just saying, in addition to your work as a DJ and presenter of music, I really appreciate getting to know you and getting a sense of who you are. You're really dynamic and also just loving human being, and it's a real honor to. To get to know you.
- [63:05]
C
Vice versa, without a doubt. I'll be back. I'm not going anywhere. Give your dad my love, too.
- [63:11]
B
I will, Sharon.
- [63:12]
C
Thank you.
- [63:12]
A
Oh, yeah, that's right. You know Christy's dad, DJ Ronnie Soares. What a small world.
- [63:16]
B
All right, take. Take good care. Thank you so much.
- [63:19]
C
All right, thank you.
- [63:20]
A
Thank you, Sharon. Thank you so much.
- [63:23]
C
Okay, now talk to you guys. Tuned. Bye.
- [63:37]
A
Okay.
- [63:50]
B
That was our conversation with Sharon White. I hope it was as fun for you to listen to as it was for us to record. Ryan, what did you think of our conversation?
- [63:57]
A
It was fantastic. And in some ways, Sharon White's experience kind of represents the entirety of this second season on Disco. I mean, she's been at all the different clubs, all the different spaces, has been in contact with many of the very artists that we talked about on this show.
- [64:13]
B
Yeah, I totally agree, Ryan. In some ways, sharing is a touchstone for the conversations that we've had and the journey we've taken. You know, Lulu lavey is making a documentary about her. Jesse Rifkin took you physically to some of the spots that she DJed. She's a member in Luis Mario Oriana Rizzo's Legends of Vinyl hall of Fame. And of course, she knows Nikki Siano. Lucas Hildebrand talked all about the gay club scene, many of which were clubs that Sharon actually played at. And in some ways, Sharon complicates the story of the death of disco that Gillian Frank tells us by showing how she could continue to be a popular disco and dance music DJ well into the 1980s. So in some ways, she is sort of the entirety of this journey through.
- [64:55]
A
Disco and What a fitting capstone to our multifaceted season. In our conversation, one of the stories I wanted to know more about from Sharon was her role in the Sahara Club, a pioneering club for LGBTQ women that brought together luminaries like Jane Fonda, Patti Smith, Betty Friedan, and Gloria Steinem all under one roof, dancing together. I thought that was really interesting, and I would love to know more about that.
- [65:18]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because while we have talked about the gay male scene in disco, we haven't talked as much about the lesbian scene. And the Sahara Club is really the center of that. And Sharon was at the center of the Sahara Club.
- [65:29]
A
Yeah, it's fascinating, and it kind of fits with their overall trajectory of dropping in and changing the game in these various different places.
- [65:36]
B
Absolutely. And one other thing that I want to point out is that a lot of people think of disco as a specific type of music as coming into fruition in 1975. That's the date Tim Lawrence names. And actually, that is the exact year that Sharon White transitioned to become a club DJ when she DJed her first gig in Long island with DJ Roy Thode.
- [65:56]
A
And then the rest is history.
- [65:58]
B
So thank you all for taking this journey with us and for being with us on this last episode of the season. Ryan, thanks so much for bringing me on as a co host and co producer. It has been fantastic.
- [66:07]
A
It's been mutually beneficial and it's been a lot of fun. So thank you, Christy.
- [66:10]
B
Before we wrap up, we want to give some acknowledgments.
- [66:13]
A
Thank you. First, the Gotham center for New York City History at the CUNY Graduate center in Midtown Manhattan. Thank you to the generous support of the Urban History association and to Fordham University, where I teach American Studies.
- [66:24]
B
Thanks also to the Society for American Music and to the University of Colorado Boulder's President's Fund for the Humanities.
- [66:30]
A
And fundamentally, we can't do what we do here without New Books Network helping broadcast these histories for a large, large audience. Thank you so much. And finally, I want to give one more special shout out to the photographer Meryl Meisler for letting us use her photography this season. Meisler is an iconic photographer who photographed nightlife in New York City discotheques, places like Studio 54, Paradise Garage, and Hurrah. Her work really visualizes the soundscape that we're trying to capture in the season. Stay tuned to Socials to check out the latest developments for Soundscapes NYC and what's coming next on Instagram. That's soundscapesnyc o. Soundscapesnyc well, this is.
- [67:09]
B
Our last episode for this season, but there's lots more coming in the future.
- [67:13]
A
Stay tuned to see what's coming next.
- [67:15]
B
I'm hi, I'm Christy Soares.
- [67:16]
A
And I'm Ryan Purcell.
- [67:17]
C
Until next time, take a drive down to Hollywood. You say you need some kind of firm direction but you know all the others wish they could but they can't. No take that stand. But I think we still could. Yeah, I think we still could.
- [67:38]
A
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