Episode Summary: "Caste: A Global Story" with Suraj Milind Yengde

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Nicholas Gordon
Guest: Suraj Milind Yengde, author of Caste: A Global Story (Hurst, 2025)
Date: December 25, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, host Nicholas Gordon interviews Suraj Milind Yengde, a leading scholar and activist, about his new book, Caste: A Global Story. The conversation explores how the concept and lived experience of caste have developed far beyond India, extending into the global Indian diaspora – from the United States and Trinidad to the Middle East. Yengde discusses the historical roots of anti-caste activism, the parallels and divergences between casteism and racism, and the transformation of Dalit identity across continents and generations. The exchange provides a rich, personal, and scholarly look at caste as both a local and international phenomenon.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation and Origins of the Project

(02:24–06:42)

• Yengde’s motivation was autobiographical—his upbringing in Nanded, Maharashtra, and his early exposure to global Black leaders through his father.
• Local Dalit movements in India historically saw themselves as part of global struggles for justice and not merely as Indian victims; they were inspired by internationalism.
• Yengde’s academic journey, activism in the US, and encounters with archival materials (notably a box from activist Dr. Lakshmi Verwa) led to the book’s inception during the pandemic.

“The Dalits there didn’t see themselves as merely victims of the Indian caste system. They looked at themselves as a broader condition that they contributed to, to kind of a new world politics, if you will, the global picture in that sense.”
— Suraj Yengde (03:14)

2. History of Anti-Caste Movements in India

(06:42–10:50)

• Anti-caste struggle formally begins in colonial India in the 19th century, becoming more organized in the early 20th century.
• Initially driven by retired military Dalits and regional movements; unification under Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, who led the national Dalit civil rights struggle.
• Ambedkar’s remarkable academic credentials, international exposure (Columbia, LSE), and multilingualism helped center the movement at both national and international levels.

“He has all those credentials that the empire would necessarily pay attention to. And then there we go, he kind of earns that pedigree and within that he doesn’t assimilate. His focus remains very anti caste.”
— Suraj Yengde (09:27)

3. Race and Caste: Parallels and Differences

(10:50–15:59)

• Yengde explores the similar structural roots of race and caste: both impose systemic, hierarchical identities and determine resource distribution.
• Despite commonalities, caste is presented as even more inescapable – a “perma-structure” – while highlighting nuances that differentiate racial from caste discrimination.
• Both Dalit (India) and Black (America) struggles aim for inclusion and justice within existing nation-states, not through separatist or revolutionary politics.

“The parallels between race and caste, on the other hand become far too prominent for one to not register their equivalence. And the first is it’s, you know, it’s a systemic hierarchy that has been created. It is also kind of a given identity that one is trying to wrestle against.”
— Suraj Yengde (12:51)

4. Cross-Pollination with the African-American Experience

(15:59–21:19)

• Dalit activists drew inspiration from Black literature and leaders, especially from the Harlem Renaissance and the broader African-American civil rights movement.
• Early evidence includes Phule’s comparisons of caste slavery with American slavery and intellectual exchanges between Ambedkar and figures like W.E.B. Du Bois.
• In the 1970s, the Dalit Panthers referenced Black Panthers, and cross-cultural literary connections flourished.

“There was an active African American media... there’s so many newspapers… the Dalits here then are reading about it in magazines like the Dalit panthers of the 1970s, are reading about the struggle in Time magazine and so forth.”
— Suraj Yengde (17:15)

5. Caste in the Caribbean: The Trinidadian Experience

(22:33–27:12)

• Yengde tracks the persistence and transformation of caste identities among Indo-Caribbean communities, particularly in Trinidad.
• Historical migration patterns brought large numbers of Dalits and Shudras as indentured laborers.
• Over generations, explicit Dalit identification faded, while upper-caste identities (especially Brahmin) remained more visible.

“[In Trinidad,] migration after many years erases this kind of Dalit identity of the lower person in the hierarchy, but retails the hierarchy of the person who is on the upper end...”
— Suraj Yengde (26:34)

6. Caste in the United States: Evolution and Activism

(27:12–31:57)

• The anti-caste movement in the US began with highly educated post-civil rights era migrants in the 1960s and 1970s, building alliances with Black intellectuals and institutions.
• Early efforts were circumscribed within Indian circles, but more recently have become part of mainstream conversations, especially in the wake of policy changes and tech sector controversies.
• Joint recognition of Ambedkar and Martin Luther King, Jr. at events (e.g., Howard University) marked symbolic moments of solidarity.

“The American politics, you know, is taking shape, but it’s still seen as Indian politics. It only, you know, in recent years ... it has started to register as something that people need to reckon.”
— Suraj Yengde (29:04)

7. Caste and Class in the Middle East

(31:57–36:46)

• The Middle East has hosted both elite Indian professionals and vulnerable migrant workers from lower castes.
• Due to local restrictions, caste-based organization is informal and underground.
• Early Dalit movement organizers in the region managed to support and unite workers—sometimes through significant personal risk—to foster solidarity.

“You can’t really have any movement, any kind of organization based on this kind of, you know, affiliation ... So they had to work on a very ad hoc basis.”
— Suraj Yengde (32:37)

8. Contemporary Debates: Caste Discrimination in the West

(36:46–43:10)

• Recent years saw renewed activism and policy debates about caste discrimination in the US, particularly in Silicon Valley and university settings.
• Tensions exist between fears of anti-Indian prejudice and the need to address caste-based discrimination.
• Yengde underscores the difficulty and importance of maintaining a focus on equality and solidarity, even as anti-Indian rhetoric rises in some quarters.

“Our struggle is not for taking something away from you. It’s about creating more parity. And there is a noble cause in that. It’s spiritual, it’s more devotional. And there is a kind of a freedom in doing this at this time.”
— Suraj Yengde (41:48)

9. Looking Forward: Scholarship, Teaching, and Self-Care

(43:30–46:10)

• Yengde plans to focus on teaching at the University of Pennsylvania, with upcoming courses on race and caste.
• He emphasizes the need for personal and collective reflection in an era of increasing vulnerability and societal anxiety post-COVID.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes things we do in our life as a person, as an individual, it keeps coming back to you in various ways.” (Suraj Yengde, 04:12)
• “Dr. Ambedkar … took 58 courses in three years. Which is crazy, right?” (Suraj Yengde, 08:13)
• “Both of them [Dalits and African-Americans] are fighting for civil, political and economic justice within the framework of the state and constitution. They’re not asking to blow up the state or structure like many other revolutionary groups are.” (Suraj Yengde, 14:16)
• “In Trinidad … migration after many years erases this kind of Dalit identity ... but retains the hierarchy of the person who is on the upper end, which is the Brahmin…” (Suraj Yengde, 26:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Motivation: 02:24–06:42
• History of Indian Anti-Caste Movements: 06:42–10:50
• Race vs. Caste Comparisons: 10:50–15:59
• Dalit-Black Connections: 15:59–21:19
• Caste in Trinidad: 22:33–27:12
• Anti-Caste Activism in the US: 27:37–31:57
• Caste in the Middle East: 31:57–36:46
• Recent US Debates on Caste: 36:46–43:10
• Yengde's Future Plans: 43:30–46:10

Closing Remarks

The episode closes with Suraj Yengde reflecting on his future teaching and research, the ongoing struggles against caste discrimination, and a plea for sustained solidarity:

“Hopefully we can create something. And I think it’s across the world that the economy has brought us closer to our own insecurities and vulnerabilities. And I think we ought to now pay attention to that.” (Suraj Yengde, 45:33)

Listeners are invited to follow Yengde’s work via his website surajyengde.com and to engage with further discussions on the global story of caste.