Podcast Summary: Sustainability, Identity, Artisans and Designers

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison
Date: December 25, 2025
Book Discussed: Artisans and Designers: American Fashion through Elizabeth and William Phelps

Episode Overview

This episode explores the career, philosophy, and impact of Elizabeth and William Phelps, mid-20th-century American artisan-designers renowned for their leather accessories. Through conversation with author and historian Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison, listeners are introduced to the Phelpses’ creative process, their commitment to sustainability, the nuances of their personal biographies, and the broader historical context of American fashion identity during and after World War II.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Mathison’s Path to Fashion History (01:59–06:44)

• Personal Background: Dr. Mathison explains her journey from English literature and law school to a career in historic costume and fashion history.
• Early Influences: Recollections of collecting antique hats, purses, and buttons, and learning to sew with her grandmother, highlight her enduring interest in craft, history, and writing.
  • “I learned to sew with my grandmother, hand sewing, and also she had an old treadle sewing machine... so I had some, you know, hand skills as well.” (04:43, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

2. Discovering the Phelpses (06:44–08:42)

• Origin of the Book: Initial research into 1940s fashion led Dr. Mathison to repeatedly encounter the Phelps name. Their prominence in contemporary magazines contrasted with their relative historical obscurity.
• Research Approach: The book grew from Dr. Mathison’s dissertation and builds on her previous work with under-documented women’s history in fashion.

3. Piecing Together the Phelpses’ Lives (08:42–12:49)

• Scarcity of Personal Records: Unlike some designers, the Phelpses left no large archive, requiring Mathison to piece together their story from oral histories, letters, and museum objects.
• Oral History Value: Anecdotes from employees and acquaintances provide rare personal glimpses: Elizabeth’s playful spirit, William’s formality, their collaborative inspiration.
  • “It was little bits like that, because unlike some designers, there's not a huge archive deposited in special collections somewhere. So I was really having to dig in...” (09:11, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

4. Sustainability and Slow Fashion—In Practice (12:49–17:27; 31:24–35:15)

• Authentic Commitment: The Phelpses genuinely practiced sustainability and slow fashion—favoring high-quality, long-lasting goods, and treating craftsmanship and the work environment as core values, not marketing fads.
  • “Their walk was more important than their talk as far as what was sustainability.” (12:49, Dr. Christina Gessler)
  • “Their goal right from the beginning was to create things... classic... made by hand, the opposite of his assembly line past.” (32:49, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)
• Workshop Culture: Small-scale, communal workshop settings encouraged artisans to make products from start to finish—distinct from assembly lines and fostering empowerment.

5. The Phelpses’ Biographies and Creative Partnership (15:39–24:26)

• William Phelps:
  • Yale-educated, left after his father died.
  • Worked for GM in Europe—disliked mass production, inspired by European craft studios.
  • Formed strong artisanal values during Great Depression and personal setbacks.
  • “He actually manages to make a positive change in his career and actually do something that he really loves.” (15:39, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)
• Elizabeth Phelps:
  • German-born, private about her early life likely due to WWII/Cold War context.
  • Came to the U.S. as a child; later attended the Art Students League.
  • Was more involved in painting initially, later transitioned to leatherwork with William.
  • “She was very private... it wasn't really something that you want to be trumpeting... especially when the US Is at war with Germany.” (24:26, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

6. Origins of Their Design Collaboration (19:58–22:54)

• Met in creative New York circles; both active in the American craft revival of the 1930s.
• William, a woodworking and leather enthusiast; Elizabeth, a mural painter.
• Together, they merged skills to begin crafting unique leather belts and bags.

7. The Swamp and the Leather Trade (24:26–29:29)

• Their first collaboration: finding just the right leather in New York’s historic “Swamp” neighborhood—once a center for tanneries and leather trade.
• Mathison describes how New York’s layered history shaped the Phelpses’ identity and reflected an American sense of reinvention.

8. Defining American Fashion Identity (35:15–39:22)

• Wartime Context: WWII diminished Parisian influence, giving American designers room to define local identity.
• Phelps Associates’ Niche: “Right thing at the right time in the right place”—connections with key designers, journalists, and stores helped them ride the wave of American luxury defined by utility, quality, and accessibility.
  • “It was really kind of a perfect coming together of that. And the Phelpses were really good at framing their things in terms of a long term investment...” (36:25, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

9. Innovation Through Necessity and Resourcefulness (41:12–45:32)

• Material Shortages: WWII shortages led to creative reuse—salvaging old handbag hardware, utilizing surplus military materials, antique store finds.
• Design Practicality: Their products echoed “Americana” and historic U.S. military gear by practical necessity as much as for style.
  • “Already, even before this became an issue, they were making things that suited the... constraints of that period.” (41:12, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)
  • “It was repurposing metalwork of all kinds... but they did consciously reference historic forms which were often from historic US military gear...” (41:12, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

10. Business Model: Profits, Labor, and Independence (45:32–50:18)

• Modest Profits: The Phelpses emphasized sustained, equitable profit margins (12% materials, 30% labor, 18% overhead, 40% profit; content with modest income).
  • “They do, you know, from the start, plan that they, they don't want to just totally maximize their profit.” (46:54, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)
• Production Limits: Their hands-on model limited scale, leading to a separate, store-sponsored workshop for simplified lines—yet always maintained creative independence and never ceded control to financiers.

11. Elizabeth’s Later Years and Artistic Legacy (50:18–54:35)

• After William’s death, Elizabeth patented new designs and ran the business solo before returning to painting.
• Mathison’s book intentionally highlights her as artist, craftsperson, and entrepreneur—a figure often historically overlooked.
  • “I think she would like to be remembered as an artist... whether she was painting or... cutting out a leather shoulder bag.” (53:54, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Craft and Livelihood:
  “A person is happier making a thing from start to finish, whether it's a whole stove lid or a whole handbag.”
  (Paraphrase of Elizabeth Phelps’s philosophy, 32:49)

• On Historical Research:
  “It was little bits like that... like stitching together a crazy quilt to try to find some sense of who they were as people.”
  (09:11, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

• On Sustainability:
  “They give an example of someone who was able to actually experiment with different ways of making, different ways of doing business... still do that even within... a larger structure.”
  (51:30, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

Important Timestamps

• 01:59–06:44: Dr. Mathison's personal background and journey
• 06:44–08:42: Discovery of the Phelpses’ cultural significance
• 08:42–12:49: Research challenges and personal glimpses into the Phelpses
• 15:39–19:06: William Phelps's life, values, and crisis-driven transformation
• 19:58–24:26: Early days of the creative partnership in NYC
• 24:26–29:29: The “Swamp” neighborhood and leather supply
• 31:24–35:15: The Washington Square workshop and philosophy of work
• 35:15–39:22: American identity in wartime fashion
• 41:12–45:32: Creative reuse and material sourcing during shortages
• 45:32–50:18: Modest profit model and business structure
• 50:18–54:35: Elizabeth’s solo years and legacy as an artist

Tone & Conclusion

The episode maintains a thoughtful, scholarly yet accessible tone, with both host and guest sharing narratives, contextual analysis, and poignant details. Dr. Mathison expresses excitement and hope that listeners will feel empowered to explore alternative approaches to creativity, sustainability, and business.

“You can see a lot of different approaches for doing things... They actually achieved what they took as their measure of success: making things that had this long life and were appreciated for their beauty and quality.”
(51:30/53:46, Dr. Rebecca Jumper Mathison)

Further Resources

• The book includes extensive photos of the Phelpses’ work, museum locations, bibliography, and research notes for further exploration.
• Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the lessons of the Phelpses' business and artistic philosophy for contemporary sustainability movements.