Podcast Summary: New Books Network - Sylvia D. Hoffert on "Wagging Tongues and Tittle Tattle: Gossip, Rumor, and Reputation in a Small Southern Town" (U Georgia Press, 2025)

Episode Overview
In this episode, host Dr. Miranda Melcher interviews historian Dr. Sylvia D. Hoffert about her latest book, Wagging Tongues and Tittle Tattle: Gossip, Rumor, and Reputation in a Small Southern Town. The discussion explores how gossip and rumor shaped social relationships, community standards, racial interactions, and reputations in 19th-century Hillsborough, North Carolina. By treating gossip as a serious object of historical inquiry, Hoffert uncovers its key role in community dynamics, individual agency, and broader social anxieties.

1. Introduction & Author Background

Time: 01:32–04:47

• Dr. Hoffert introduces herself as a historian specializing in women’s history, with a focus shift from the North and West to the American South (04:49).
• The project originated from practical reasons: wanting to study something local and needing work during the COVID-19 pandemic (04:49).
• Inspiration came from archival discoveries related to a 19th-century girls’ school in Hillsborough (03:45–04:39).

Notable Quote:
"I'm from a small town in the Midwest, so I know all about gossip...I took my background as a small-town resident and applied it not to the Midwest, but to the South." — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert (04:07)

2. Why Study Gossip? Defining Gossip and Rumor

Time: 05:20–09:50

• Gossip is often trivialized and gendered (“women gossip, men share intelligence”), but Hoffert argues it's foundational for community building and social norms (06:02–07:45).
• Gossip vs. rumor:
  • Gossip: Judgmental, focused on individuals’ past behaviors, circulated among people who know one another.
  • Rumor: Anticipatory, speculative, often involves those who don’t personally know each other, and tends to demand action (08:48–09:50).

Notable Quote:
“What we need to do is to consider gossip as a phenomenon that is pretty universal...It helps to establish and sustain relationships among people who know each other.” — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert (06:38)

3. Hillsborough: The Southern Small-Town Setting

Time: 10:15–12:59

• Hillsborough, North Carolina: Small, relatively stable population in the 19th century, with a mix of courthouse square, shopping area, and surrounding plantations (10:17–12:59).
• About one-third of Orange County’s population was enslaved, and the dynamic between town and plantation life was intricate.

4. Gossip, Rumor, and Race: The Case of Mary Smith

Time: 13:19–19:38

• Hoffert recounts the malicious rumors about Mary Smith, a young woman accused via gossip of abusing enslaved people (13:32–15:49).
• The story illustrates how gossip was weaponized within existing anxieties about slave rebellions and was selectively applied to vulnerable members of the community (17:36–19:38).
• Whites used gossip as a way to indirectly express anxieties about slavery and their own complicity, while directing condemnation towards individuals like Mary (17:48).

Notable Quote:
“Gossip, I think, is a way for them to... subliminally expose their anxieties about the dangers inherent in a slave economy.” — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert (17:26)

5. Reputation and Agency Among Free Blacks

Time: 23:10–27:18

• Free blacks, like furniture maker Henry Evans, had to actively manage their reputations to survive and succeed (24:07–25:41).
• Positive or negative gossip could make or break a business or social opportunity (25:53–27:18).

Notable Quote:
“All of that reputation was based on what people said about him. So gossip about him, he needed to manage it...to encourage positive gossip in order to establish his ability to support his family and to run his business.” — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert (24:39)

6. The Role of Gossip Among Enslaved People

Time: 28:11–32:57

• Oral culture dominated enslaved communities; gossip provided information on work conditions, overseers, and survival strategies (28:11–32:13).
• Example of Elizabeth Keckley: public knowledge (gossip) of her beatings led to community condemnation and protection (28:45–32:13).
• Enslaved people's agency was limited but present in their use and navigation of gossip (32:13–32:57).

7. Gossip and Business: Girls’ Schools and Economic Survival

Time: 33:07–38:04

• The Burwell School for Young Ladies had to navigate local and state-wide gossip to maintain enrollment and a positive reputation (33:24–36:26).
• Even seemingly minor gossip (e.g., rumors about students’ collars) could threaten the school’s standing (34:30–36:26).

8. Gossip, Mental Health, and Medical Change

Time: 38:04–44:04

• Hoffert discovered an unusual concentration of prominent women in Hillsborough being labeled “insane” or suffering from illness (38:42–45:16).
• 19th-century understanding of women’s health was influenced by medical sexism and limited science; opium was often over-prescribed (39:48–42:42).
• Gossip served as the community’s “diagnostic tool” for mental illness, eventually feeding into the creation and use of asylums (42:52–44:04).

Notable Quote:
“Gossip serves as a diagnostic tool, which is to say that the family describe the symptoms...and the doctor would go, yes, you’re right.” — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert (41:48–44:04)

9. Surprises and Reflections in Research

Time: 44:17–46:03

• Hoffert was surprised by the intertwining of general ill health, addiction, and mental illness in elite families, and how gossip both reflected and shaped these realities (44:39–46:03).
• Documents primarily captured the experiences of Hillsborough’s elite; she lacked sources on poorer, enslaved, or free black residents’ mental health (45:32–46:03).

10. Closing & Future Projects

Time: 46:03–47:32

• Hoffert is taking a break from writing: “I love the research, I love the writing. I get it published and I’m tired...I need a brilliant new idea.”
• She anticipates her next project will arrive as “an idea at 2 o’clock in the morning” (46:23–47:10).

Memorable Quotes

• “Interestingly enough, [gossip] is attributed to women. Women gossip; when men do exactly the same thing, it’s called sharing intelligence.” (06:38) — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert
• “The gossip tends to be stronger than the denial.” (15:23) — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert
• “If you were a trusted worker, you might have more freedom of movement and freedom from the observation of whites than if you were known to be recalcitrant or disrespectful.” (32:13) — Dr. Sylvia Hoffert

Key Takeaways

• Gossip as Social Glue: Gossip and rumor served important, often overlooked roles in shaping norms, relationships, and hierarchies in small-town Southern society.
• Agency and Vulnerability: Reputation-management was essential for marginalized groups (free blacks, enslaved people, women), but agency was constrained by structural inequalities.
• Broader Anxieties: Gossip often expressed collective anxieties about slavery, social change, race, and health—sometimes more safely than direct conversation.
• Practical Impact: Gossip could make or break individuals’ livelihoods, school reputations, and even determine medical diagnoses and commitment to asylums.
• Complexity, Not Triviality: Treating gossip as a topic for serious scholarly study opens windows into the hidden workings of power, prejudice, and adaptation in the antebellum South.

For a deeper exploration, read Dr. Sylvia Hoffert’s Wagging Tongues and Tittle Tattle: Gossip, Rumor, and Reputation in a Small Southern Town (University of Georgia Press, 2025).