Podcast Summary: Talking Thai Politics: China's Rising Foreign Ministry — Practices and Representations of Assertive Diplomacy

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Duncan McCargo
Guest: Dr. Dylan Loh, Associate Professor, Nanyang Technological University
Air Date: December 12, 2025
Main Topic: An in-depth discussion of Dylan Loh’s book China’s Rising Foreign Ministry: Practices and Representations of Assertive Diplomacy (Stanford University Press, 2024)

Episode Overview

This episode features an engaging conversation between host Duncan McCargo and author Dylan Loh, unpacking Loh’s new book on the transformation of China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the growing influence of diplomats, and the theoretical and empirical basis for understanding Chinese diplomacy today. Drawing on rare qualitative research and rich interview data, Loh’s book challenges conventional wisdom about state-centric foreign policy and highlights the dynamic roles of diplomatic actors in China’s increasingly assertive international engagement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Diplomats Matter: Challenging Conventional IR Perspectives

[00:41–02:59]

• Traditional international relations (IR) literature underestimates the importance of diplomats, especially in the context of China, tending to focus on powerful leaders and state apparatus.
• Dylan Loh: “They are not as unimportant as what the literature suggests… there’s lots of leeway, latitude within the realm of possibilities for [diplomats] to make decisions… they do play quite a consequential role in Chinese foreign policy.” (01:33-02:56)

2. Qualitative Methodology & Rare Access

[02:59–05:47]

• Loh’s research is distinguished by 104 interviews with 84 informants, including 47 Chinese diplomatic actors—a rare feat in IR due to access and sensitivity.
• Access was enabled by “guts and guanxi” (social networks), strategic use of positionality, and conducting interviews before China became less open post-2019.
• Interviews with non-Chinese diplomats provided valuable comparative insights and triangulated observations about diplomatic behavior.

Quote:
Loh: “I relied a lot on snowmobile sampling, I relied a lot on people making introductions. I relied a lot on guanxi… The problem was I had to cut down on the number of folks I’m going to speak to because there’s just too many.” (03:30-05:47)

3. Researcher Positionality in Fieldwork

[05:47–07:22]

• Loh’s background (Singaporean, ethnically Chinese, Cambridge PhD) made interlocutors more willing to engage with him:
• Loh: “Structurally it helps that I’m from Singapore, which in the Chinese perspective… [is] something that they do not see us as threatening.” (06:03-06:44)
• A comparative anecdote: Chinese diplomats responded to Loh’s email but not to a German researcher’s, underscoring how nationality and ethnicity can affect access.

4. Theory Meets Empirics: Practice Theory in IR

[07:22–10:29]

• Loh discusses using practice theory (Bourdieu) to “bring humans back” into IR and counter purely abstract state-centric analysis.
• Practice theory helps observe actual behaviors and decision-making, not just high-level policies.
• Loh: “You do not need the complex theoretical setup to do the empirical work… but I was arguing against this tendency to remain at the abstract level…” (08:14-10:18)

5. Shifting Power Under Xi Jinping: Ministry’s Empowerment

[11:13–13:55]

• Since 2009 (and more so under Xi Jinping from 2012/13), China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs has gained new prominence—budget increases, more visibility, higher profile within party organs.
• Symbolic upgrades (e.g., from “small group” to “commission”) indicate real changes in power and influence.
• The ministry is increasingly central to both foreign and domestic messaging:
• Loh: “… the Ministry of Foreign Affairs started intervening in matters not only on foreign policy, but on domestic issues as well. So all of this cohered…” (12:56-13:55)

6. Mapping the Diplomatic Field: Layers of Power and Cooperation

[13:55–17:06]

• Loh explains the “onion” diagram from his book—a layered model of actors around the Ministry (Politburo, think tanks, academics, etc.).
• The Chinese diplomatic field is not just competitive but also highly cooperative, with think tanks and diplomats collaborating for influence.
• Loh: “There are actually a lot more actors in the field of diplomacy and foreign policy than people normally assume… thinking in terms of field helps us understand hierarchy… competitive but also cooperative.” (14:32-17:06)

7. China and ASEAN: Subtle Influence and Institutional Leverage

[17:06–19:51]

• ASEAN’s weak institutional design (consensus requirement) makes it susceptible to outside influence—China exploits this by cultivating key states.
• Not subordination, but influence: China doesn’t need all of ASEAN, just a few allies.
• Loh: “China doesn’t actually need all of ASEAN to follow… just needs one or two or three. Because of the conception or the norm of unanimity, every member has a veto power.” (17:50-18:48)

8. Institutional Habitus and Everyday Diplomacy

[19:51–23:57]

• “Institutional habitus” (akin to ‘organizational culture’, but broader): deeply embedded practices, rituals, discipline, and ideological vetting.
• Selection for loyalty alongside competency; historical rituals (e.g., anniversaries of Zhou Enlai) reinforce institutional memory.
• Even minor policy wording changes send important signals about state expectations.
• Loh: “You are sending a signal by saying you expect it to be self-sacrificial and you must always place the interests of the party and the state before your personal interests.” (22:51-23:24)

9. Twitter/X Diplomacy & the Rise—and Retreat—of ‘Wolf Warriorism’

[23:24–26:27]

• Chinese diplomats have used Twitter/X (despite platform being banned at home) for aggressive public diplomacy—the “wolf warrior” phenomenon.
• Public confrontations, sometimes even personal attacks, became widespread at the peak of this trend (notably among diplomats like Zhao Lijian).
• Government experimentation has revealed the limits of this style, and moderation has since returned.
• Loh: “There was a period of time when they seem to be trying to outdo each other…” (24:37-25:14)

10. Assertiveness as a Function of Power and Resources

[26:27–29:17]

• The shift to assertiveness matches China’s rise in resources and global interests (e.g., now surpasses the U.S. in number of overseas missions).
• Loh: “As China’s role and interests become not just regional but global… it requires much more people, much more resources… taking on a more assertive posture to defend its global interests.” (28:47-29:17)

11. New Research Directions: “Discourse Power” in Global Politics

[29:17–30:37]

• Loh’s next project investigates “discourse power”—Xi Jinping’s bid to shift who gets to define authoritative narratives in international politics.
• How and why China is seeking to increase its global legitimacy to speak and set norms.

Quote:
Loh: “Xi Jinping has made discourse power as one of the central pillars… Why is it that the West gets the legitimacy and authority to speak on so many issues, including defining what’s human rights?” (29:33-30:22)

Notable Quotes (With Timestamps)

• “They are not as unimportant as what the literature suggests… they do play a consequential role in Chinese foreign policy.”
  — Dylan Loh (01:38-02:56)

• “Structurally it helps that I'm from Singapore… which in the Chinese perspective, [is] not threatening… I strategically use it to gain access as well.”
  — Dylan Loh (06:03-06:22)

• “We need to actually go back to the humans that make international politics. We need to study what they're doing, rather than simply look at states as able to act on their own…”
  — Dylan Loh (09:26-10:18)

• “With the rise of China, China simply has got much more resources, much more influence than before. And that shows in the attitudes, in the positions that China has taken.”
  — Dylan Loh (27:51-29:17)

• “Xi Jinping has made discourse power as one of the central pillars… there has been a concerted effort to increase China's discourse power.”
  — Dylan Loh (29:33-30:22)

Episode Structure & Key Timestamps

• 00:01–00:41: Introduction; significance of China's foreign ministry
• 01:33–02:59: Importance of diplomats
• 02:59–05:47: Methodology & fieldwork strategies
• 05:47–07:22: Role of researcher’s positionality
• 07:22–10:29: Theoretical frameworks (practice theory)
• 11:13–13:55: Power shifts under Xi Jinping
• 13:55–17:06: Mapping the diplomatic field
• 17:06–19:51: China’s engagement with ASEAN
• 19:51–23:24: Institutional habitus/organizational discipline
• 23:24–26:27: Social media & wolf warriorism
• 26:27–29:17: China’s diplomatic assertiveness in context
• 29:17–30:37: Next research project (discourse power)
• 30:56: Closing remarks

Memorable Moments

• Duncan’s recollection of an unusually assertive Chinese ambassador in the 1990s, foreshadowing later “wolf warrior” styles. (26:27–27:35)
• The “onion diagram” from Loh’s book as a teaching tool, illustrating the complexity of diplomatic actors in China. (13:55–14:32)

Conclusion

This episode presents a rich, empirically grounded exploration of the changing practices and organizational logics of China’s foreign ministry. It highlights how individual diplomats and institutional cultures matter, not just leaders or abstract states—offering new perspectives both for scholars and observers of contemporary international politics. Loh’s ongoing research on “discourse power” promises to deepen understanding of China’s future global strategy.