New Books Network Podcast Summary

Episode: Tamara Jong, "Worldly Girls" (Book*Hug Press, 2020)
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Holly Gattery
Guest: Tamara Jong

Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Holly Gattery and Tamara Jong, author of Worldly Girls, a fragmented and deeply personal memoir. The discussion explores Jong’s unconventional upbringing as a Jehovah’s Witness, her family dynamics, struggles with mental health, identity, grief, and her journey away from faith. The episode also delves into the craft of memoir-writing—especially when writing about others—and the ethical, emotional, and spiritual complexities involved.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Genesis of Worldly Girls

• Origins of Writing Memoir
  • Tamara initially intended to write fiction, finding nonfiction intimidating (03:04).
  • Started with autobiographical fiction as a way to 'try on' telling her story before moving into creative nonfiction.
  • “It felt safer for me. I didn’t actually think about writing my own life at all.” — Tamara (03:39).

Ethics, Empathy, and Writing About Others

• Approaching Sensitive Truths

  • Considered privacy and readers' perspectives, changing names where appropriate, and asking permission when stories closely involved others (05:32).
  • Sought to write with empathy and love, rather than for revenge or judgment.
  • “I did try to write it with love, I guess, in some ways, but I didn’t intentionally set out to injure anybody or make them look bad because I also look not great in many of the stories.” — Tamara (06:58).

• Reader Reactions and the Reflection of Shame

  • Holly and Tamara discuss how readers’ discomfort with sensitive topics (e.g., alcoholism) often stems from their own values and shame, not the writer’s intent (07:25).
  • “If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.” — cited paraphrased quote from Anne Lamott (09:30).

Family, Love, and Loss

• Mother-Daughter Relationship

  • The evolving gulf between Tamara and her mother as religion took hold and as her mother struggled with addiction and grief (12:41).
  • “I grieve that we cannot have an adult relationship because I feel like I was an adult back then. Even if I was 20, I felt like I was a super young 20.” — Tamara (10:54).

• Writing About an Emotionally Distant Father

  • Tamara reflects on idolizing her father before anger and understanding set in (27:29).
  • Explores generational trauma and how her father’s struggles with connection influenced her own life.

Faith, Doubt, and Spirituality

• Navigating Former Faith and Cult Dynamics

  • Tamara openly discusses her evolving relationship to the Jehovah’s Witness faith, including the pain and resistance in labeling it a ‘cult’ (15:38).
  • The book’s essay structure mirrors the gradual loss of faith, with scriptural references fading as the book progresses.
  • “I struggled with the cult definition...I had a hard time putting it down on the page, even writing the word.” — Tamara (16:41).

• Spirituality Without Religion

  • After leaving the faith, Tamara struggled to see herself as spiritual.
  • Therapy and exposure to diverse perspectives helped her relearn spirituality outside organized religion, embracing unanswered questions as part of spiritual life (24:20).

Craft & Structure

• Fragmented, Essay-Based Memoir

  • The structure allowed space for complexity, omissions, and “living with questions and without closure” (23:05–24:20).

• The Slow Reveal

  • Information about her mother’s death is revealed gradually, a deliberate editorial decision to shape the reader’s experience (31:51).
  • “This is all Stacey May.” — Recognizing the pivotal role of editor Stacey May Fowles in narrative flow (31:51).

• Containers and Metaphor

  • Utilizes tangible items (like the vacuum) as metaphors to explore complex emotional terrain and relationships (24:20).

The Meaning of the Title

• “Worldly Girls” as a Loaded Term
  • “Worldly” is Jehovah’s Witness terminology for outsiders—those who are not part of the faith (36:10).
  • Title aims as a signpost for those familiar with the faith while also offering layered meanings for all readers.

Memorable Quotes

• “I did try to write it with love...but I didn’t intentionally set out to injure anybody or make them look bad because I also look not great in many of the stories.” — Tamara (06:58)

• “If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.” — Anne Lamott, paraphrased by Holly (09:30)

• “It is what it is, right? Like, this is a life. And I think, I thought I need to put it down, you know.” — Tamara (10:35)

• “Children always seem to be good at hiding what is not ready to be seen.” — Tamara, reading from Worldly Girls (21:09)

• “I actually thought I wasn’t spiritual anymore since I’d left my religion because I felt in my faith I did honestly have an answer. I didn’t understand that you could be spiritual and not religious.” — Tamara (25:07)

• “My husband said, you know, you and your brother idolized your dad, and we really did, you know, for so many years. And then once the that wore off, I was, like, so angry about a lot of things...you get to a certain point in your life where you can’t be angry anymore.” — Tamara (27:29)

Important Timestamps

• 03:04 — Tamara’s entry into memoir writing
• 05:32 — Ethics of writing about real people
• 10:02 — On Anne Lamott’s advice about writing family/others
• 12:41 — The growing gulf with her mother and the role of faith
• 15:38 — Approach to writing about faith and cult dynamics
• 18:36 — Tamara reads a passage from Worldly Girls
• 24:20 — The symbolism of the vacuum and living with unanswered questions
• 27:29 — Writing about an absent father
• 31:51 — On pacing and the strategic reveal of information
• 36:10 — Meaning and history of the title Worldly Girls

Notable Moments

• Tamara’s Live Reading
  A poignant excerpt from “Lessons,” highlighting the nuanced blend of innocence, trauma, and belief in her childhood (18:36–22:30).

• The “Vacuum Story”
  How a broken vacuum became a touchstone for unraveling relationships and grappling with loss, both material and emotional (24:20).

Looking Ahead

Tamara is at work on new essays exploring her relationship with her father, hoping to better understand his life and their shared history (34:48). The title is undecided—listeners are playfully invited to suggest names.

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is raw, vulnerable, and deeply empathetic, balancing introspection with moments of humor and literary analysis. Holly's questions are grounded in her own experience as a memoirist, fostering a supportive and insightful dynamic.

For listeners seeking a memoir that gently navigates pain, faith, loss, identity, and the power of asking questions rather than finding neat answers, Worldly Girls is highly recommended.

End of summary.