Podcast Summary: The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies

Podcast: New Books Network / Democratic Dialogues (Cornell University's Brooks School of Public Policy)
Host(s): Rachel Beatty Riedel & Issam Bore
Guest: Susan C. Stokes, Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science, University of Chicago
Date: December 7, 2025

Overview

This episode features a deep dive into Susan C. Stokes's new book, The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies. Stokes explores why democratically elected leaders sometimes intentionally erode the very institutions that empower them, examining global patterns, the root causes, and ways to resist democratic decline. The conversation traverses structural incentives, leader motivations, resistance strategies, ethical dilemmas for pro-democracy actors, and practical lessons—particularly in the context of the United States.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do Leaders Undermine Democracies?

Structural Opportunity + Leader Inclination

• Structural Factors:

  • Evolving party systems in advanced democracies have left segments of the working class politically "orphaned."
  • Post-war era: Stronger class-based parties (social democrats, conservatives) represented clear constituencies.
  • Late 20th-Century Changes: Left parties broadened appeal to affluent, educated city dwellers, blurring their working-class identity.
  • Globalization, mostly championed by left parties, led to increased income inequality—leaving working-class and economically needy citizens feeling abandoned.
  • Quote (Stokes, 05:42):

    "Globalization had a very stark effect of increasing income inequality in many countries... the more economically needy and working class segments of the electorate [were] somewhat orphaned..."

• Rise of Right-wing Ethno-Nationalists:

  • These parties positioned themselves between legacy conservatives and social democrats—more economically nationalist and anti-immigrant.
  • They often blame "out-groups" for the working class's woes.
  • "When democracy was undermined... in the global north, it tended to be at the hands of right-wing ethno-nationalist leaders." (09:33)
  • Leader Motivation: Even when structural opportunities exist, democratic backsliding depends on leaders either valuing or being skeptical of democratic institutions (Obama vs. Trump as examples).

2. Global Patterns of Backsliding

Common Features Across Regions and Ideologies

• In the global south (e.g., Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa), backsliding often comes from left-populist leaders (not just right-wing).

• Shared Conditions: High income inequality is common in countries undergoing democratic erosion.

• The "Authoritarian Playbook":
  Regardless of ideology, backsliding leaders use similar strategies:

  • Targeting the independent press—censorship, resource denials, selling to friendly groups.
  • Undermining judicial independence—smearing judges, hollowing institutions.
  • Attacking opposition parties, legislatures, and civil society groups.
  • Quote (Stokes, 12:09):

    "They undertake what we refer to as a playbook... depressingly standard across cases... they typically go after the independent press... the courts... opposition political parties... civil society organizations..."

• Historical Parallel: This moment is often compared to the 1930s, with the rise of fascism and collapse of democracies leading to global conflict (13:26).

3. Resisting Democratic Backsliding: What Works?

Institutional & Civil Society Responses

• Elite Institutional Resistance:

  • Legislatures can slow harmful reforms with procedural tools ("slow-mowing"), buying time for civil society and courts to mobilize.
  • Example: Colombian opposition's use of parliamentary procedures under President Uribe (17:44).
  • Bureaucratic foot-dragging can be a subtle, effective resistance.
  • Legal challenges are crucial ("First run to all the lawyers for help." —19:47), sometimes resulting in court reversals or professional sanctions for unethical actors.
    • Example: Sanctioning Trump-associated lawyers after 2020 US election (20:56).

• Citizen Action:

  • Public resistance and voter mobilization can oust backsliding leaders.
  • Examples: Ousting of PiS party in Poland, Bolsonaro in Brazil ("plain old electoral majorities who say we don't want this government in power" —22:48).
  • Social and protest movements can shift narratives, contesting inevitability and normalizing resistance.

• "Near Misses":

  • The UK under Boris Johnson—attempts at backsliding (e.g., suspending Parliament) failed as political and public support eroded.
    • "He ended up losing a lot of support. And so because voters turned against him, his party turned against him..." (24:10)

4. Dilemmas for Pro-Democracy Actors: Hardball Versus Norms

Should Resistance Also Bend the Rules?

• No Single Right Answer:
  • "I don't think there's a single right answer to the question of whether hardball should be used or not used by pro-democracy forces..." (27:43)
  • Hardball tactics can be justified against hardball, but risk legitimizing cynicism and validating opponents' propaganda (“there is no such thing as fair and independent bodies...” —31:39).
  • Examples:
    • US redistricting/gerrymandering—should blue states retaliate tit-for-tat? (29:00)
    • Poland’s new government using the same heavy-handed tactics as their predecessors at the media regulator.
    • Brazil: Bolsonaro prosecuted according to law—not hardball, but a restoration of the rule of law (32:26).
    • Germany: Debates on banning the far-right AfD party under "militant democracy" laws, but hesitance due to its popularity (34:04).

5. Lessons & Advice for Today’s US Context

Practical Steps for Civic Leaders and Citizens

• Be alert but not paralyzed by pessimism—democratic loss is not inevitable.
• Proceed on the assumption that elections will occur and votes will count—prepare for trouble, but don’t disengage.
• Local election administrators and legal organizations are more prepared after 2020's contested aftermath (37:36).
• "Be alarmed but don't be demobilized"—participation remains key.
• Autocratizing governments often make mistakes due to insularity and poor decision-making structures (42:44).
• The US’s Project 2025 exemplifies the protracted, sophisticated preparation for executive power; pro-democracy forces need their own "blueprint for redemocratization" (44:59).
• Concrete reforms needed: restoring the norm that political lying is a career-ender, Supreme Court appointment rules, broader institutional reforms (46:06).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the universal playbook of autocrats:

  "They go after the, the independent press... They go after the courts... opposition political parties... civil society organizations."
  —Susan Stokes (12:09)

• On institutional resistance:

  "Sometimes they just say, yeah, we'll get back to you in a couple weeks... just kind of slowing things down... not a kind of snapping to order..."
  —Susan Stokes (18:10)

• On legal defense:

  "Shakespeare's line was, first kill all the lawyers. I think that we should be saying, first run to all the lawyers for help."
  —Susan Stokes (19:47)

• On the impact of voters:

  "There just are plain old electoral majorities who say we don't want this government in power..."
  —Susan Stokes (22:48)

• On hardball tactics:

  "The backsliding leaders try very hard to make the public skeptical and cynical about democratic institutions. They try very hard to convince us that there is no such thing as fair and independent bodies, that it's all politics down to the ground."
  —Susan Stokes (31:39)

• Advice for US democracy advocates:

  "Be alarmed but don't be demobilized."
  —Susan Stokes (41:27 approx)

• On the need for post-backsliding reform:

  "I think we need a blueprint for redemocratization is the slightly stark term that I'm beginning to use in this regard."
  —Susan Stokes (44:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Why Leaders Backslide: 03:45–09:51
• Global Patterns and the 'Authoritarian Playbook': 10:20–13:26
• What Resistance Works: 16:20–24:10
• Hardball vs. Democratic Norms: 26:27–34:53
• Advice for the US / Future Steps: 37:08–49:54

Conclusion

Susan C. Stokes’s research argues that democratic backsliding is driven by both structural political/economic changes and the personal motivations of leaders. While the threat is real and global—evident from diverse examples and the ubiquity of the authoritarian playbook—resistance is possible. Both institutional actors and citizens play critical roles, and success depends on vigilant, flexible strategies and a commitment to rebuilding democratic norms. For the United States, the challenge is to remain engaged, reinforce institutions, and be ready not only to stop decline but to repair and renew democracy after threats subside.

This summary captures the essence, key arguments, and practical lessons from the conversation with Susan C. Stokes as discussed on the New Books Network’s Democratic Dialogues podcast.