Podcast Summary

New Books Network – Academic Life

Episode: The Light Between Apple Trees: Rediscovering the Wild Through a Beloved American Fruit
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Priyanka Kumar
Date: October 16, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on Priyanka Kumar’s book, The Light Between Apple Trees: Rediscovering the Wild Through a Beloved American Fruit, exploring the intertwining of apples, biodiversity, American history, and what Kumar terms “the microwild”—those vibrant, often forgotten pockets of nature that persist among the encroachment of development. Through personal narrative, science, and history, Kumar and host Dr. Gessler discuss how apples connect us to the land and to each other, the importance of preserving micro-habitats, and how engaging with these spaces can transform our relationship with the natural world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Priyanka Kumar’s Roots and Inspiration

• Background in Nature:

  • Kumar shares her upbringing in the foothills of the Himalayas, in an apple-growing region, where her passion for nature began.
  • Now in Santa Fe, NM, her awareness of nature’s rapid change fuels her work.
    (02:41)

• Origin of the Book’s Title:

  • A rainy day in a locked New Mexico orchard (accessed via the Bureau of Land Management) inspired the book’s title. The experience of discovering venerable, fruit-laden apple trees—and feeling a profound sense of belonging—prompted her quest to understand how orchards ground us.
    • “...I felt like being among the apple trees was circling me back to [...] the heart of the apple growing region in the foothills of the Himalayas. And suddenly and surprisingly, I felt at home and I felt that this is where I wanted to be.” — Priyanka Kumar (06:01)

The Concept of “Microwild”

• Defining 'Microwild':

  • Kumar introduces "microwild"—small, fragmented patches of nature near our neighborhoods, which support surprising biodiversity.
  • These are accessible “jewel-like” places that can connect us back to nature, crucial for those who can’t access remote wilderness.
    • “What I mean by the microwild is fragmented pockets of nature which are still large enough to harbor biodiversity. ...they have a lot of potential to connect us back to nature because they still exist in areas that are close enough to our neighborhoods so that we can access them.” — Priyanka Kumar (07:49)

• Development Threats:

  • Microwilds are under constant threat from encroaching development; recognizing and valuing them is the first step toward conservation.

• Pandemic Discovery:

  • During COVID-19 lockdowns, Kumar, guided by her young daughter, discovers a microwild near her child’s preschool—emphasizing how children can guide us back to nature’s hidden corners.
    • “Sometimes children can be our greatest teachers because ...she literally tugged at our sleeves and wanted to take us to what she called the bridge.” — Priyanka Kumar (11:00)
  • Repeated visits and discoveries, including a private apple orchard, sparked her investigation of “microwilds” and their restorative role during disconnection from wider society.

Apple’s Global and American Journey

• Origins and Diaspora:

  • Tracing the apple’s journey from wild groves in Kazakhstan (Malus sieversii) through the Silk Road and Europe, where it hybridized with crabapple, before arriving in North America.
  • The apple is revealed as a “transnational fruit” with deep ties to American history and culture.
    • “Really, the apple is a transnational fruit. ...this fruit that we eat every day for lunch came from these wild mountains in Kazakhstan. I mean, wow, that's exciting.” — Priyanka Kumar (20:09)

• Naming and Immigration Stories:

  • Kumar shares a detective story about tracing the "Wolf Willow" apple in New Mexico to its origins in Quebec (the “Wolf River” variety), illustrating the apple’s migratory history and the spread of culture and varieties along old migration and trade routes.

• US Apple Culture:

  • Early American settlers prioritized planting apple orchards (often before building homes), mainly for cider—safer than local water.
  • Up to 16,000 named apple varieties once existed in the US; now, only about a fifth are accessible due to industrial consolidation.
    • “Sometimes they were planting apple trees even before they started to build their one room dwellings. ...This is how America ended up getting, you know what, at one point, 16,000 named varieties of apple trees.” — Priyanka Kumar (22:51)

Apples as Cultural and Social Bridges

• Founding Fathers & Cider:

  • Stories of Jefferson’s and John Adams’s orchard records, experiments, and correspondence: apples as cultural currency, sources of pride, and social glue.
  • Cider was integral to colonial life, enough to be an employment or voting-day perk.
    • “It was his [Adams’s] dream that one day his grandchildren would eat an apple from a tree that he had planted with his own hands. So I found that to be profoundly moving.” — Priyanka Kumar (31:08)
    • “I thought, how wonderful is this that you might disagree on a lot of the politics. Politics is so divisive these days, but you can still come together and agree about apples.” — Priyanka Kumar (32:31)

• Community Apple Tastings:

  • Inspired by historic “apple friendships,” Kumar hosted porch apple tastings during the pandemic, bringing together neighbors and strangers, sparking intergenerational connections and joy.

Apples, Biodiversity, and Ecology

• Nutritional & Ecological Diversity:

  • Emphasizing her mother's advice to “have nine different colors on your plate,” Kumar connects apple diversity to broader ecological health and pollinator support.
    • Apple biodiversity underpins broader biodiversity—benefiting birds, mammals, and ecosystem resilience.

• Bears and Apples—Interdependence:

  • Kumar describes a bear (“Ursula”) supported by feral and abandoned apple trees within a microwild, highlighting how fragmented habitats sustain wildlife, especially as climate change threatens other food sources.
    • “It’s important for Ursula to have access to some of these abandoned apple trees or feral apple trees, and they sustain her.” — Priyanka Kumar (36:48)
  • The Full Circle: Bears as Planters: She shares how park rangers planted bear scat and saw many chokecherry seedlings sprout—a potent metaphor for overlooked ecological interdependence.
    • “...bears, through their scat, are actually planting these vegetative communities that support not just bears, but also birds and also us...” — Priyanka Kumar (39:30)

• Contrast: Wild vs. Store-Bought Apples:

  • Kumar contrasts the joy and richness of local, diverse apples with the “cardboard” texture of mass-market, long-distance organic apples from grocery stores. Local diversity supports both palates and the wider ecosystem.
    • “...these were organic Golden Delicious apples that came all the way from British Columbia, I believe. ...They were all hardboard, they were hollow inside, and it felt like eating cardboard.” — Priyanka Kumar (43:02)
    • Discovery and connection with local orchardists brings communities together—apples as a focal point for collective memory and cultural exchange.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sense of Belonging in Nature:
  “I felt at home and I felt that this is where I wanted to be. And I think to some extent, the rest of the book was me unpacking that feeling and trying to understand why an apple orchard... can make us feel so rooted and so present.” — Priyanka Kumar (06:01)

• On the Concept of the Microwild:
  “...There are these fragments of nature that support creatures, you know, all the way from the hummingbird to the bear... our micro wilds are under immense development pressures. ...acknowledge the value of these micro wilds... before we start to think about how we might conserve these areas before it's too late.” — Priyanka Kumar (08:36)

• On Children as Guides:
  “Sometimes children can be our greatest teachers... she literally tugged at our sleeves and wanted to take us to what she called the bridge.” — Priyanka Kumar (11:00)

• On Apples as Carriers of History:
  “I was constantly blown away by how the apple has a way of bringing history to life and bringing science to life for sure, but also bringing history and culture to life and connecting us.” — Priyanka Kumar (20:59)

• On Founding Fathers’ Love of Apples:
  “He [Jefferson] complained...that they don't have apples here like the Newtown Pippin...” — Priyanka Kumar (27:03)
  “It was his [Adams’s] dream that one day his grandchildren would eat an apple from a tree that he had planted with his own hands. So I found that to be profoundly moving.” — Priyanka Kumar (31:08)

• On the Importance of Protecting Microwilds:
  “If even the fragmented shards of nature are fragmented even more, at what point does...a micro ecosystem...just stop offering sustenance to those animals and to us?” — Priyanka Kumar (37:52)
  “It's such a revelation to discover the microwild, that there's still this...circle of hope around us and that we discover them and we make sure that that doesn't get fragmented any further...” — Priyanka Kumar (40:44)

• On Ecological Interconnectedness:
  “We, I think for too long, since the Industrial Age, we've thought of animals and other wildlife as the other. ...But really, if you look deeper into the inner workings of nature...it's a revelation. ...All the different ways in which we are connected.” — Priyanka Kumar (39:56)

• On the Emotional and Communal Power of Apples:
  “There was a tradition that I started during the pandemic...apple tastings from my porch...Neighbors and strangers and friends and especially kids. And I loved cutting open apples for kids and seeing their faces light up...” — Priyanka Kumar (32:31)

• Final Message:
  “Certainly getting to know different apple varieties...but also making the connections, also realizing how fostering apple diversity is...connected to other kinds of biodiversity in nature.... Tapping into those riches. ...It does take us stepping out of the door and experiencing nature for herself...” — Priyanka Kumar (46:26)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:41 — Priyanka Kumar's upbringing and background
• 04:07 — Story inspiring the book’s title and the sense of home in the orchard
• 07:45 — Introduction & significance of “microwild” concept
• 10:45 — Discovering microwilds during the pandemic; children as guides
• 14:06 — Book’s cyclical structure; exploring apple’s arrival in America
• 15:19 — The apple's global journey; transnational nature of apples
• 18:18 — Tracing heritage apple varieties
• 21:31 — Wild apple diversity in Kazakhstan
• 22:51 — Hybridization and explosion of apple varieties in early America
• 24:51 — Crabapples, pollinators, and Johnny Appleseed myth
• 26:17 — Founding Fathers and apple culture
• 32:31 — Pandemic apple tastings and “apple friendships”
• 35:08 — Bear (“Ursula”) and apple trees: Microwild’s ecological role
• 39:03 — Bear scat experiment: full circle ecology
• 42:56 — Wild vs. store-bought apple experience
• 46:23 — Parting hopes: biodiversity and community connection

Conclusion

In a blend of storytelling, memoir, science, and history, Priyanka Kumar and Dr. Christina Gessler invite listeners to see apples—and nature itself—as keys to rediscovering our roots, both literal and figurative. The episode is a call to notice and protect the microwilds that surround us, to embrace biodiversity for its ecological and cultural wealth, and to reimagine our relationship with the land through everyday experiences—like sharing apples with neighbors or following a child into a forgotten grove.

For those who haven’t listened:
If you are ever tempted to overlook an overgrown orchard, or bite into an anonymous store apple without a thought, Kumar’s reflections will encourage you to look closer, taste deeper, and discover the wild—and the history—that lies just outside your window.