Podcast Summary: New Books Network — The Perils of Tantra, with Susannah Deane Original Air Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Dr. Pierce Salguero
Guest: Dr. Susannah Deane

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores the often-overlooked dangers and complexities of advanced Buddhist meditation and Tantric practices in Tibet, with a particular focus on how these can lead to what are termed “wind disorders” or “madness.” Through conversation with anthropologist and Tibetologist Dr. Susannah Deane, listeners gain insight into Tibetan perspectives on mental health, spirituality, and the sometimes perilous intersection of religious ritual and psychological well-being. The episode is also a window into Dr. Deane’s new book, Illness and Enlightenment: Exploring Tibetan Perspectives on Madness in Text and Everyday Life (Berghahn Books, 2025).

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Dr. Susannah Deane’s Academic Journey

• Background in psychology; trained as a massage therapist.
• Lived and conducted research in India, Nepal, and Tibet over several years.
• PhD from Cardiff University, focused on Tibetan medicine, Buddhism, and psychiatry (03:04).
• Postdoctoral research in Qinghai province (Amdo), China, studying madness across medical and religious frameworks.

Tibetan Medicine: “Wind” (Lung) Disorders & Mental Health

• Tibetan medicine draws on the concept of three energies: wind (lung), bile, and phlegm.
• Wind is closely associated with the mind and consciousness—disturbances manifest as anxiety, worry, or more severe psychological symptoms (05:00–07:19).
• Wind is not a substance, but a set of properties related to movement and mental processes. Disruption can be caused by emotions, diet, weather, or spiritual experiences.

Notable Quote:
“Wind is about motility and movement and space in the mind, body... The reason that wind and the mind are said to be kind of tied together is like a rider and his horse.”
— Susannah Deane (07:19)

The Perils of Tantric Practice: When Spirituality Goes Wrong

• In Tibet, “Tantric practice gone wrong” is frequently cited as a cause of madness or mental disturbance (05:00).
• Wind disorders caused by spiritual practices are a common explanation; also spirit affliction and trauma.
• The practices involve “manipulating the wind” through esoteric techniques, which can impact consciousness—high reward if successful, but high risk if misapplied (30:58).

Notable Quote:
“Tantric practice is like high-risk, high-reward... If you do them wrong, you are messing around with your own consciousness.”
— Susannah Deane (30:58)

Cultural Models: Comparing Tibetan “Wind” to Qi & Prana

• Tibetan lung conflates Indian vata (Ayurvedic) and prana (Tantric), leading to both overlap and tension between medical and spiritual paradigms (11:01–13:17).
• The subtle body in Tantra (channels, winds, chakras) is conceptual and anthropologically malleable; different texts and traditions depict different arrangements (39:07–41:21).

The Role of Metaphor and Translation

• In the West, diverse Asian concepts (qi, lung, prana) often get reduced to “energy”—but these terms carry different metaphorical weight in original contexts (12:09).
• Ongoing debates exist within Tibetan communities (historical and modern) regarding how to interpret and map these concepts onto the body and experience.

Social and Political Contexts of Wind Disorders

• The concept of wind (lung) is politicized—speaking about it can become a coded way to talk about the emotional strain of exile or political oppression in contemporary Tibet (16:13).

Decision-Making: Medical Doctor or Lama?

• Despite Tibetan medical texts on wind diseases, patients often seek help from religious teachers rather than physicians, believing the root is spiritual (42:52–46:02).
• This is shaped by beliefs, accessibility, cultural assumptions, and the environment in medical vs. monastic settings.

Notable Quote:
“For this kind of thing, the lama is better.”
— (Reference to chapter in Deane’s book, discussed at 45:12)

Prevention and Treatment of Meditation-Related Disturbances

• Prevention: Strict adherence to instructions, teacher-guided progression, completion of preliminary practices.
• Treatment: Recommendations may include Tibetan herbal medicine for wind disorders, dietary adjustments (warming foods), rest, comforting environment, and spiritual intervention from teachers (42:52–46:02).

Comparison to Global Contexts

• The phenomenon of meditation-induced mental health issues is not unique to Tibet; similarities are drawn to “Jerusalem Syndrome” and Chinese discussions of “meditation sickness.” (25:21–27:21)
• Western clinical approaches are often ill-equipped or dismissive, while Asian traditions have acknowledged these dangers for centuries.

Methodological Aspects: Fieldwork in Sensitive Domains

• Dr. Deane approached fieldwork ethically, never directly seeking out sufferers but allowing such stories to emerge voluntarily.
• Interviewees were often eager to share perspectives, sometimes relaying personal or familial experiences (47:47–49:51).

Memorable Moments and Timestamps

• Introduction to Wind Disorders and Tantric Risk (05:00): “A common cause of madness... is Tantric practice gone wrong.”
• Explaining the Subtle Body System (39:07): “In both the medical and the tantric Tibetan systems, we have this idea of a depiction of the body with thousands of channels...”
• Cultural Variation in Response (46:02): Discussion of why Tibetan patients often prefer religious over medical practitioners for spiritual illnesses.
• Ethnographic Reflections (47:47): Dr. Deane explains the ethics of her research and openness of her Tibetan interlocutors.
• Personal Caution and Practice (51:52): Dr. Deane shares increased caution about personal spiritual practice after her research.

Selected Notable Quotes (with Timestamps and Attribution)

• “Wind is about motility and movement and space in the mind, body. ... The wind and the mind are said to be kind of tied together like a rider and his horse.”
  — Susannah Deane (07:19)

• “These maps of the subtle body are not telling you that's what the body looks like if you cut it open… but they're giving you a way of working with energy within the body.”
  — Susannah Deane (13:17)

• “Tantric practice is like high-risk, high-reward. … If you do them wrong, you are messing around with your own consciousness.”
  — Susannah Deane (30:58)

• “If you really are interested in mental illness and madness, you should just go to Dharamsala because it’s full of inchenyumba, like, kind of foreign crazies…”
  — Anonymous Tibetan informant, relayed by Deane (26:12)

• “You should be following your teacher's guidance. ... The treatments are going to be mixed depending on what seems to be going on.”
  — Susannah Deane (42:52)

• “For this kind of thing, the lama is better.”
  — Title of Deane’s chapter, and community viewpoint (45:12)

Additional Resources & Where to Follow Susannah Deane

• Dr. Deane’s work is available via Academia.edu and LinkedIn; PDFs of select articles will be posted in the podcast’s Substack (54:22).
• Recent works discussed:
  Tibetan Medicine, Buddhism and Psychiatry (Carolina Academic Press, 2018)
  Illness and Enlightenment (Berghahn Books, 2025)
  Edited volume: Buddhism and Healing in the Modern World (University of Hawai’i Press, 2024)

Conclusion

• Dr. Deane’s research broadens the understanding of mental health risks within Tibetan Buddhist practice and challenges Western assumptions about meditation, spirituality, and illness.
• Her perspective urges scholars, practitioners, and clinicians to pay attention to indigenous knowledge systems—not just for their own sake, but for more nuanced and culturally competent approaches to spiritual and psychological well-being.

Recommended listening for:

• Anyone interested in Buddhist studies, Asian medicine, cross-cultural psychology, or the dangers of advanced spiritual practices.

For further reading and resources, check the episode show notes and the New Books Network/Black Barrel Podcast Substack.