Podcast Summary: The Philosophy of Hope – On Immanence and Transcendence with R.J. Snell
Podcast: New Books Network / Madison’s Notes
Host: Ryan Schinkel
Guest: Dr. R.J. Snell
Date: March 25, 2026
Overview
This episode explores the virtue of hope amid modern secular disarray, guided by Dr. R.J. Snell’s philosophical and theological insights, particularly as expressed in his book Lost in Chaos (2023). The conversation navigates the history of disenchantment, secular responses to existential malaise, false and authentic avenues toward hope, and the enduring power of integrity and daily perseverance. The discussion situates classical phenomenological and religious perspectives in dialogue with present-day cultural challenges and illuminates practical, philosophical, and spiritual resources for sustaining hope.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Dr. Snell’s Background and Teaching Philosophy
- Dr. Snell’s Journey: Formerly taught at Eastern University and Templeton Honors College; currently Director of Academic Programs at the Witherspoon Institute, Princeton, and Editor-in-Chief of Public Discourse ([00:10]).
- Teaching at Princeton: His recent seminar, "Integrity and Political Responsibility," focused on Central European dissidents influenced by phenomenology (Husserl, Jan Patočka, Eric Voegelin, Edith Stein, etc.), examining integrity as political resistance ([02:02]).
“Integrity itself was a form of politics...if you can have things like friendship and integrity of mind...you're already recovering civil society and you're already doing a kind of politics.”
— R.J. Snell ([02:20])
2. Disenchantment and Secularity: The Modern “Immanent Frame”
- Charles Taylor’s “A Secular Age”: Introduces three senses of secularity (separation of church and state, religious observance rates, and ‘conditions of belief’); modernity is marked by a loss of ‘enchantment’ ([07:19], [11:12]).
- Immanent Frame: Describes the “flattened” world where reality is seen only in terms of what can be measured or manipulated—“exclusive humanism”—with religious meaning no longer naturally accessible ([11:13]).
“The world loses its density...There’s no verticality, there’s just horizontality...the world loses a sense of density or enchantment.”
— R.J. Snell ([11:13])
- The Role of Technology and Social Structures: Modern living arrangements (suburbs, information overload) reinforce thin, horizontal ways of life; poetic and symbolic depth is diminished ([14:25], [16:50]).
3. False Attempts at Re-Enchantment
Rationalism, Technocracy, and Activism
- Rationalism in Politics: Overconfident in reason as a tool for controlling outcomes—leads to totalizing technocracy (drawing from Michael Oakeshott) ([24:31], [27:06]).
- Technocratic Utopianism: Overpromising the transformative power of tools like AI; see also digital technology’s “quasi religious” aura and the Promethean drive for re-invented humanity ([30:27], [31:45]).
“There is a sense of vertigo or having lost something...One can have despair in a very easy way...but I’m not convinced that we just need to convince ourselves that the world is enchanting if the metaphysics isn’t true.”
— R.J. Snell ([13:03])
- Activism and the “Religion of Humanity”: Attempts to found solidarity on abstract, contentless ‘humanity’ (Pierre Manent’s critique)—depriving identity and community of their particular, energizing content ([32:22], [34:11]).
“Humanity is too general, too empty of a category to move us to love.”
— R.J. Snell ([35:08])
Sought-After Weirdness: Haunted Cosmos, Folklore, and Mood
- Modern Bespoke Mysticism: Some seek enchantment through conspiracy, folklore, or “weirdness” (e.g., podcasts about cryptids, aliens), often “trying too hard” or “larping” rather than genuinely regaining a metaphysically dense world ([36:24], [37:39]).
“If in 2026 you want to argue that there are unicorns...I think you are larping.”
— R.J. Snell ([38:23])
- Aesthetic or Mood-Based Religion: The “fetishization” of traditional liturgies (Latin Mass, Gregorian chant) absent theological commitment is seen as performative and ultimately hollow ([41:08], [44:17]).
“I think that’s trying to construct a mood ... which is different from a genuine ontology which would allow for divine participation or the presence of God in the world.”
— R.J. Snell ([42:59])
4. Authentic Hope: Philosophical and Theological Dimensions
The Natural and Theological Virtue of Hope
- Aquinas’ Two Forms of Hope:
- Natural Hope: Confidence that one (or one’s community) can attain a difficult good.
- Theological Hope: Confidence rooted in God’s assistance; both the act and its confidence are divine gifts ([53:37], [57:08]).
“Hope in its most generic sense is confidence about the arduous good.”
— R.J. Snell ([53:37])
- Heroic and Religious Parallels: The Anglo-Saxon/Norse “lost cause” (dignity in defeat, Battle of Maldon) is a kind of “natural hope”—striving for intrinsic goods even without chance of success ([57:55], [61:12]).
- Transformation of the Mundane: True hope is sanctified in “the quotidian”—daily life, perseverance, ordinary tasks—the arena of spiritual formation ([71:41]).
“Day after day, one learns the passive verbs, does the dishes, tends the children, pays the bills, goes to work...This is the drama of existence of your life.”
— R.J. Snell ([71:41])
Hope Under Oppression: Dissidents, Integrity, and Non-Lying
- Central European Example: Dissidents like Jan Patočka, Václav Havel, and Czesław Miłosz cultivated hope and resistance through personal integrity and truthfulness, often at immense personal cost ([62:09], [67:49]).
“The power of the powerless is that even if you have no temporal power...if you don’t lie...the regime would fall pretty quickly, and it turns out it does.”
— R.J. Snell on Václav Havel ([65:36])
- Solzhenitsyn and Suffering: Suffering is not the enemy but can produce spiritual depth; comfort-seeking societies risk spiritual thinness ([69:49]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“We act as the sons and daughters of God, knowing that all that is his is ours. We are free to play those serious games that happy children play…But in the end, a father will lead them home…far fonder than we would have ever had for ourselves.”
— R.J. Snell (reading from the book’s last paragraph, [74:02])
-
“If something is true, it’s not true as my invention…meaning can provide real meaning and be utterly false and even nonsensical. That’s what ideology is.”
— R.J. Snell ([50:12])
-
“I have no criticism of someone who is entertaining religion out of fear and trembling…my deeper gripe…is I think it’s attempting to replace intelligibility with a mood.”
— R.J. Snell ([50:12], [48:51])
-
“One eventually sees that in…the doing of the dishes and the tending of the children—this is the drama of existence…where one will become holy and just…or unholy and unjust.”
— R.J. Snell ([71:41])
Important Timestamps
- [00:10] – Dr. Snell’s academic background and teaching philosophy
- [07:19] – Introduction to Taylor’s “A Secular Age” and concepts of disenchantment
- [11:13] – Explanation of the "immanent frame" and modern flatness
- [16:50] – Cultural and poetic thinning; loss of shared stories
- [24:31] – False re-enchantments: rationalism, technocracy, and activism
- [32:22] – The “religion of humanity” (Manent’s critique)
- [36:24], [41:08] – Haunted Cosmos, folklore, mood-based religion
- [53:37], [57:08] – Natural and theological hope; Aquinas’ distinctions
- [62:09] – Dissidents under totalitarianism; integrity as hope
- [69:49] – Solzhenitsyn on suffering and spiritual depth in the West
- [71:41] – Hope sanctified in daily, mundane life
- [74:02] – Closing book quote: childlike trust, hope, and providence
Conclusion
The conversation with Dr. R.J. Snell offers a profound meditation on hope in a disenchanted age. The discussion ranges from phenomenology, the psychology of modernity, and critiques of hollow attempts at re-enchantment, to the hard-won, authentic practices of hope—rooted in truthfulness, integrity, and daily perseverance, as well as grounded in transcendent theological faith. Snell’s call is not to chase mood or nostalgia but to honestly engage the world as it is, to withstand false solutions, and to practice hope as an arduous but ultimately meaningful virtue, lived out most powerfully in the ordinary details of existence.
For more from Dr. R.J. Snell and further resources:
- Lost in Chaos (2023)
- Madison’s Notes episode catalog and substack
- Related authors and thinkers: Charles Taylor, Jan Patočka, Václav Havel, Czesław Miłosz, Michael Oakeshott, Pierre Manent, Alasdair MacIntyre