Podcast Summary: The Tree of Life (Bryan Zahnd)

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Chris Odinius (Almost Good Catholics, NBN channel)
Guest: Pastor Brian Zahnd
Date Aired: March 8, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a riveting discussion between host Chris Odinius and Pastor Brian Zahnd about Terence Malick’s acclaimed film The Tree of Life (2011)—Zahnd’s favorite movie of all time. More than a film review, the conversation delves deeply into the film’s theology, artistry, and existential questions, treating the movie as a meditative sermon on suffering, grace, and human destiny. The speakers reflect on cinema, faith, loss, and the enduring power of storytelling.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tree of Life as Theological Art [03:45]

• Zahnd: The film is “an art film that at its core is an attempt at theodicy... as successful as any attempt at theodicy I’ve ever seen. It’s deeply Christian, it’s profoundly theological.”
• The movie follows a non-linear structure, evoking the complexity of memory, prayer, and spiritual searching.
• Zahnd has watched the film over 40 times and often shares it with his church community, helping them access its meaning.

2. Plot and Character Summary [05:28–06:25]

• Plot: Focuses on the O’Brien family. Brad Pitt plays the stern father (Mr. O'Brien), Jessica Chastain the gracious mother, and Sean Penn the eldest son, Jack O’Brien, shown in adulthood. The family’s middle son dies young (age 19, possibly in Vietnam); this tragedy shapes the narrative.
• Odinius: Points out the biblical allusion in “Jack O’Brien” (J-O-B = Job) [09:04].

3. Suffering, Theodicy, and Job [07:33–08:50]

• The film opens with a passage from Job 38: “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth...?”
• Zahnd: The film “responds to grief and the question of why suffering happens... more Christian in a more Christian, expansive way than the Book of Job does or could.”
• The themes weave through biblical eras, paralleling Genesis to Revelation.

4. Grace vs. Nature [10:09–14:55]

• Central Dichotomy: The “way of nature” vs. “the way of grace”—a direct quote from the film’s early monologue:
  • Grace “doesn’t try to please itself... accepts insults and injuries...”
  • Nature "only wants to please itself, get others to please it too..."
  • “No one who loves the way of grace ever comes to a bad end.”
  • [Read aloud by Zahnd at 11:43]
• The family father embodies nature: struggling, ambitious, sometimes harsh.
• The mother lives out grace: forgiving, accepting.
• However, Zahnd is careful not to villainize Mr. O’Brien, reflecting instead on our all-too-human striving and dissatisfaction.

5. Cosmic Imagery & Suffering’s Context [13:40–16:38]

• The movie transitions from familial loss to a “17-minute sequence” depicting the creation of the universe, life, and extinction (dinosaurs, meteors).
• Zahnd: “It takes you literally from the moment of creation, the Big Bang... to dinosaurs... to 1950s Waco, Texas. It’s Jack’s memories, and it’s nonlinear.”
• Suffering is set in the cosmic order, evoking awe and humility (“the answer is: God is with you, all the time”).

6. Nature, Sin, and Human Calling [19:14–22:04]

• Humans are called “to bear the image of God... become like God, but not apart from God.”
• Zahnd links the Eden story’s Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge, arguing death is a mercy that keeps humanity from eternal brokenness—resurrection is the promise.

7. Resurrection and Hope [24:13–28:03]

• The film culminates in a vision of resurrection: “You see the dead rise... families reunited... old bodies become young again... a new world is born as a chorus of amens is sung…” [~26:14]
• Final message: The faint smile on adult Jack O’Brien’s face signifies hope—“God is with us. This is not the end. Which I think is the ultimate theodicy.” [27:17]
• “If you can believe those two things—God is with us, and this is not the end—then you can smile, even in the midst of that present grief and sorrow.” [27:40]

8. Storytelling as Sermon [36:33–39:34]

• Zahnd discusses the sermon as artistic storytelling; “sermon in its best form is an artistic enterprise... That’s why I think of The Tree of Life as just like one of the best sermons I’ve ever encountered.” [36:32–37:08]
• Power of retelling traditional stories—in life, film, and church.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Theodicy:
  “God is with us, this is not the end. Which I think is the ultimate theodicy.”
  – Bryan Zahnd [27:17]

• On Grief:
  “If you can believe those two things—God is with us and this is not the end—then you can smile a little bit even in the midst of, of that which is present grief and sorrow.”
  – Bryan Zahnd [27:49]

• On Grace vs. Nature:
  “No one who loves the way of grace ever comes to a bad end.”
  – Jessica Chastain’s character (read by Zahnd) [11:44]

• On Resurrection:
  “You see resurrection artistically depicted... A new world is born as a chorus of amens is sung.”
  – Bryan Zahnd [26:40]

• Art as Sermon:
  “Sermon in its best form is an artistic enterprise... in the genre of storytelling… That’s why I think of The Tree of Life as just like one of the best sermons I’ve ever encountered.”
  – Bryan Zahnd [36:32–37:08]

• Power of Story:
  “You would be surprised how many times I’ve been told I’ve preached a very good sermon when all I really did was tell a Bible story in a fairly creative way. They know how it begins, they know what happens... but they want to hear it again. See, that’s the power of story.”
  – Bryan Zahnd [38:56–39:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:45] Zahnd on the film’s theological ambition and nonlinear storytelling
• [07:33–08:50] Discussion of Job as the film’s scriptural starting point
• [09:04] “Jack O’Brien” as “J.O.B.”—a hidden allusion
• [11:44] Reading the way of nature vs. way of grace monologue
• [13:40–16:38] Creation sequence and cosmic themes
• [19:14–22:04] Discussion of humanity’s calling, original sin, and the Tree of Life
• [24:13–28:03] The film’s resurrection vision and Zahnd’s ultimate message of hope
• [36:33–37:08] Art and sermon as storytelling; Zahnd’s preaching philosophy
• [38:56–39:34] The essential human hunger for stories

Tone & Style

• The conversation is passionate, thoughtful, and imbued with awe for both the art of cinema and the mysteries of faith.
• Zahnd’s language is pastoral, poetic, and approachable, while Odinius brings curiosity and personal reflection.

Conclusion & Blessing

The episode closes on a prayerful note, with Zahnd offering:

“Help us to remember these two things: We’re not alone—you’re with us; and this is not the end. The end is all things made new. The end is new creation. May that bring peace into our souls. In Jesus’ name, Amen.” [40:40]

For listeners, the conversation affirms that even amidst pain and ambiguity, faith, art, and story can yield glimpses of transcendence and consolation. The Tree of Life prompts us, as Zahnd suggests, to hold on to grace, to trust that God is with us, and to believe that sorrow is not the last word.